Another cam timing issue

[norrs]

when you said "piston" I thought you meant an actual piston... then I saw the picture, so of course you mean the solenoid... get a new one.

A Ford one or atomic? I read on here some people saying there were issues with atomic but I also heard they have a new product.

[k31th]

just get whatever you think fits in your budget and your power goal... realistically the ford one is good enough for a large variety of applications.

[norrs]

Well it's all installed. I went genuine tensioner.

Do you guys just put your sump half moons in dry or do you add any sealant? The Ford manual says dry. The old one looked like it had loctight under it?

The manual also says to add sealant to the key way for the balancer. Is this what you guys do?

[Puffwagon]

Yeah nah dry is fine for this one but stick some black stickamum on the top or at least the corners. Colour doesn't really matter and it probably won't leak with nothing. I'd rather not have a leak lol.

 

Stick some sealant on the keyway so oil doesn't leak past it. You have to put silicone around the washer, no ifs or buts.

[norrs]

Dam I'm glad I asked.

[norrs]

FFS I'm about ready to push the car to the curb for the cyclone cleanup. Either that or pull the engine out!!

How the hell do you get the timing cover back on when you have put a new half moon on the sump. The moons keep popping out of the recess as I slide it on over the dowels. I can now see why you'd want the sump off to do it.

What's the trick? Pull the the timing crank seal to gain some extra height, don't use dowels and once over the moon and in place use the sump bolts to pull the case down into position? Or do I glue the moon seal down and just ram it home?

[gaz097]

This has caught me once. I'm sure jet will know the trick.

Fairly certain I had the front seal out. Had to push down quite firm to keep the seal down, then gently tap the bottom in to not roll the seal. Can't remember if I lubed the cover, or had RTV on it.

[norrs]

The problem is the dowels stop you from pushing it in any other way. Did you use the dowels?

[Puffwagon]

Stick a screwdriver through the dowel hole and lever the cover down. It's been a while since I've done it but I remember that it was difficult.

[norrs]

Ok so here is the summary/follow up/update and tips for noobs like me who want to do work on the timing chain while the engine is in the car.

Firstly, the chain did skip a tooth, so good call by Jet. It turns out it was the tensioner that failed. I’ve now installed the full atomic kit though I’ve gone OEM for the tensioner.

Regarding the process and tips:

• You have to remove:
o Fans
o Power steering pump
o Alternator bolts and front bracket
o Drive belt and pulleys
o The sump does not need to be removed but it has 4 bolts that need to be removed
o Water pump (I’ll explain why below)
o Oil feed and water feed lines for the turbo
o The radiator can stay in but it will make tapping the balancer back on hard because there is no room to swing a mallet.

• You’ll need to buy in advance:
o Half moon seal for sump
o Front crank seal
o Gasket for water pump and rubber o-ring
o Ultra grey silicone or something similar
o Borrow a strong stubby rattle gun
o Borrow a balancer removal tool

• Seems obvious but make sure that you put cardboard over your radiator to protect it while doing this work. Once the fans are out, you have a max of 130mm between the radiator and the crank bolt so it’s very tight. A stubby rattle gun just fits.

• Although it’s probably possible to remove the timing cover with the water pump in place, on my car is wasn’t. After prising for two evenings, I was only able to pry right down to the water pump but no further. It was starting to damage the cover so I gave up and removed the water pump and it basically fell of as soon as I did. So it was clearly holding it in there somehow. Perhaps it had silastic overlapping?? IDK, my car had stupid amounts of silastic on it from the factory (F6 2010). The other issue is that you can’t get an angle on the lower part of the cover with a prise tool without the pump out. Now that I have thought about it further, I think you could only do it with the water pump in if you can get the dowels out before the cover is removed. I couldn’t get them out.

• The problem with half doing the timing cover and then taking off the water pump later is that the residual water in the pump cavity then falls into the sump!!. This is because you have created a gap in the seal while trying to get the cover off. So I suggest just taking the water pump off first and get all the water out before you attack the timing cover. Removing the water pump is a 10 min job. Just do it. It also makes cleaning the contact surfaces much easier when it comes to reinstallation.

• Getting the crank pulley bolt off was ridiculous on an auto. There is heaps of silastic behind the bolt. After trying various methods, breaker bars, air jack hammer on breaker bar, and rattle guns I ended up getting a hand impact wrench power bar thing. Even that didn’t work the first evening with a sledge hammer. What eventually worked was tightening it with the hand impact wrench and then two big hits back the other way and then then the stubby rattle gun did the trick. If that failed my next step was to remove the starter motor and chock the gears. I wasn’t keen on the old crank the engine thing, but I understand that works. I know a guy who works at ford. I called them for some tips and even they suggested the crank your car method if desperate.

• The special crank pulley tool is a must if the engine is still in the car. With the engine out I’m sure you could use a generic puller.

• Now getting the timing cover back on was a bitch. The dowels cause you to push the cover in flush with the sump and therefore to pinch and rip out the moon seal. My solution was, leave the front main seal off the cover, leave the dowels out, put all your silicone on the cover (after its all clean of course), hold the bottom of the crank hole in the timing cover flush with the bottom of the crank shaft then slide it on over the moon seal (this buys you about 5-10mm of clearance to pass the moon seal), once you hit the block then slide the cover down vertically to clamp it on the seal. I then tapped it with a rubber mallet and prised it down while I tapped the dowels into place. Job done.

• Now from what I understand you put some silicone on the key way of the crank and then some on the bolt/washer to prevent oil leaks.

• Retightening the balancer bolt to 125nm was a bitch. It’s the same problem with taking it off. What I ended up doing (and this may work for removal too) is get an old drive belt, cut it in half, wrap it around anti-clockwise (when tightening), overlap it slightly on itself and then go around the chassis, wrap it around and then clamp it with a c-clamp to the chassis. I saw this technique on youtube and it worked for me to tighten it.

• One last tip, the long bolts at the very top of the timing cover are easy to strip the threads out of the head. I could feel it binding in the last 4 mm’s when screwing it by hand. I pulled it out and in a few times to check for filings but none were present. I eventually tightened it with my torque wrench set less than recommended and snap!!! Stripped the thread out of the head!! So I’ll be putting a helicoil in. When I gave the balancer removal tool back to its owner, the guy told me he did the same thing with the same bolt on his car (left hand top cover bolt). I did those bolts last. Perhaps a suggestion is to do the top bolts first before the others so the cover can settle in.

All in all, it was a bitch of a job and I can see what you might pay up to $1000 in labour. I learnt lots and as always thanks to everyone for all of your help.