Oils Aint Oils <Merged Thread>

[castro7]

Hi Guys...

I just bought some oil for the next service and this was my main source of info, thanks to everyone for the input...

I got talking to a guy who's big on racing cars and bikes, and produces motoring enthusiast dvds in the states... In his experience he was saying the Royal Purple is well marketed overpriced oil... and he said something about the nulon being of poor quality... which confirms my perception of their brand... maybe its the packaging? Anyway that's what I was planning on buying after reading what others use in their T's

I'm not supporting what I was told.. just sharing the information...

I went for the motul 5w40, the 10w50 was higher recomended but a bit pricey for me.. Its an Ester oil.. which is apparently the better stuff... I'm not sure if its a buzz word for marketing purposes or if its an actual standard.. ill look that up later

It makes complete sense that the oil doesnt become thicker as it heats up.. there was a technical doc by the penrite stand that explained this better... but I cant exactly remember what it said... Apparently the higher the second number.. the better flow at high temps...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil#Multi-grade

"The 0W, 5W, 10W number is the SAE viscosity defined by the SAE J300 specifications. The test used tests the oils ability to permit a satisfactory cranking speed under severe cold conditions. The other number is the kenematic viscosity tested under ASTM D445 measured at 100'C."

"second number, eg 30, means that the viscosity of this multi-grade oil at 100°C (212°F) operating temperature corresponds to the viscosity of a single-grade 30 oil at same temperature"

that second number is what caused my confusion... I understand that the second number is what fixed grade oil it will perform like.... is a higher second number better? or lower? if the correct answer is in this thread sorry I missed it

[castro7]

"A multi-viscosity oil, such as 10W-30, means that the oil will flow and pour like a

10W-weight oil at very low temperatures yet maintain viscosity similar to a 30 at

operating temperatures because of the oil's naturally high or additive improved

viscosity index."

"The result is that at 100 degrees C, the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot."

Sorry for the essay, I think I got a handle on it now

[DesFlurane]

So if the question was what oil?

Is the answer 10-50?

If you have a high power 350rwKw+ engine.

Edited 08/06/08 08:53 AM by DesFlurane

[stealthxr]

f*ck what a read..thanks lawsy for them very informative posts !!!!! question. I run the nulon 10-40 at the moment and have been doing so for the last 90000k, Have 115000k on the car at present and I can't fault it !!! however I did run Royal purple 0-40 for 2 consecutive changes around the 70000k mark, just to see the difference, IMO the Nulon does feel better... that's why I have reverted back to it.. now heres the question.. I run an oil cooler and moniter my oil temp closley, the gauge reads 140- 300 F ...I baby my car around till I can see movement in the gauge ie about 150F this takes about 15 min to acheive on a 20c day, after that I drive it like I stole it.. normal op temps are around the 180 F and with some hard driving and caining it gets to max of 210F were as before installing the oil cooler it would constantly sit on 210F and above.. now with the winter months approaching I think my oil cooler might be too effective because on the highway the gauge is dropping to below the 140F mark with temps being between 5- 10c of the night , in normal conditions it still sits at the 180F mark.... in your opinion would this cause damage to the motor with the nulon oil in the engine.

Thanks Pete...

[Lawsy]

Nah I think you're fine.

140F is about 60°C, most oils perform quite well from anywhere between 60-110.

Obviously, you want your oil to be above 60 if you plan on giving it a good hard run, so I suggest that when you notice the temp going below the 140F mark, drop a gear. The extra rev's without much more load should easily bring the temp up a little, then slow down, and load the motor up on 50% throttle, back off and repeat until you read a solid 170. You're now ready to race . This temp is not some magical figure, its just a guide based on the fact that 140F is a tad below where an oil starts to get anywhere near its high temp viscosity, but at around 75°C (170F) the oil starts to reduce its exponential as all of the synthetic viscosity modifiers have done there thing, and now the oil is acting like, well, oil!

Esters are electrostaticaly attracted to metals, so obviously they are good, but also expensive. I'm looking in Mobil 1's direction here (yes, it actually is a bloody good oil).

Nulon oils are also ester blinded ZDTP + MoDTC, detergent/dispersant oils. Which don't cost as much as pure ester oils, but have a lower friction, which under more circumstances performs better than pure esters. So cost + performance, its hard to go past. Also, if an oil company tries to tell you its got only MoDTC or only ZDTP withou a proper detergent package, STAY AWAY. Only with the three packages blended together do the properties and long lasting nature of such an oil become apparent. This is very important, and why the Nulon oil has been so successfull in the engineering world.

But the reality is, a shear stable, correct viscosity oil is more important than anything else.

Correct viscosity people! CORRECT VISCOSITY!!@$!

Get the basics right, and work from there

10w40.

15w40.

10w50, where for whataver reason (power/timing/climate) higher oil temps occure.

My crap list are all 0w-anything oils, you're a bit of a gronk if you run a 0w in the T6 (bit of tough love right there) and anything below a 40 vicosity. Anything above a 50 (edge 10w60 I feel is too thick unless you experience very high oil temps all the time) is probably just wasting energy for no benefit.

Think of it like this:

If a shear stable 10w-40, under almost all normal conditions, provides a true, full anti wear film on all surfacse on a fairly stock/slightly modified T6, what benefit is there to running a 50? This is why Ford recommend a 10/15w-40 for even hard outback driving (and that does get fairly extreme).

If for some reason oil temps are being measured higher than standard under most conditions, then the 40 index oil might start to thin. This is where the 50 becomes the weapon of choice. For the 50 to thin down to a 40, it needs nearly 130°C. Higher than your oil should be getting.

So where does the 60 come in into the picture?

For most of you, it doesn't.

If you plan in going for a very hard track session on a warm day (middle of winter shouldn't be too bad either), then yeah, 10w-60, go for gold.

For drag racing, don't bother. Track work is much harder, as the engine doesn't lose heat in deceleration (compression braking) and the engine buids up heat in acceleration. So temps remain constantly higher, much higher.

[Adam]

Normal oil operating temp is between 80-90 degrees from my experience.

This whole thing is confusing.

Mobil has 0W-40... Nope. 10W-30... Nope. 5W-50... Maybe? 15W-50... Maybe?

Castrol has 0W-40... Nope. 5W-30... Nope. 10W-60... That's what I've used in the past. 25W-50... No way!

I see a lot use Nulon or Royal Purple but these aren't 'mainstream' brands and readily available to everyone.

Lawsy, I appreciate your technical input on all of this. It's been helpful to many.

I'd like to see a engine builders/tuners point of view on all of this.

[RHR]

Great info Lawsy.. Now I have a question for ya.

Nulon have this product "Nulon Performance Engine Treatment" and its got this "Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE)" in it. Is there any real benifit adding this to a change.

They also have an engine oil flush.. Again is there any benifit?

Robbo

[hypnodoc]

I changed mine at 1500klm and put Castrol 0W 40 in it that lasted about 1000 klm and I switched to Nulon 10W 40. 4000klm later and I just put $180 worth of Synthetic 15W 50 Motul in it today because RAPECO don't sell the Nulon anymore. I noticed the oil pressure gauge has moved up a couple of increments. Has anyone used Motul before. I have barely heard of it but I figured that for the price it must be up on the top rung.

[SavageF6]

Motul's French innit? Probably made from snails. All I remember is it cost twice what everything else did.

[Tree Monkey]

just found this