Help on Rod change for BA XR6T

[razorbackfree]

hi all,

OK as we know the BA had the weaker rods, so after talking to a mechanic, and as my xr6 hasn't even done 70K yet. He said to get upto 350-400 rwkw on the standard turbo I need to get the rods changed as they don't like pushing them above 325 rwkw on a tune. I'm at 315 and simply want 400 if possible. I have the full APS kit on the car as well.

He said that because the motor has low k's all I need is standard size gudgeon pin and crank sizes, just a thicker connecting rod, and the stock pistons will be ok to reuse.

He also recons that its probably best to pull the motor out, then rip the head off and sump to replace the old rods.

Well I can do all this myself, but what I need to know does this sound right from you guys that have done this before. And what is the best brand rods to use, and any part numbers I need. Further down the track I may try and get 500rwkw or even higher if I was to change out the plenum and upgrade the fuel delivery and turbo. So can anyone help with info and maybe a quick overrun of whats involved or tricks that will make the job easier. Like would I need to do new crank bearings or anything or will every thing just swap over?

thx in advance

[JETURBO]

Sorry mate a BA even with 70k on the clock will need more than just a direct swop of rods, there will be so many associated parts thet will need checking/cleaning/machining/testing and then complete assembly again even if the pistons/boar are already in good condition but I place bets on at 300+rwkw the boars will need a machine/hone/overboar to clean up at around 15-20 though as they wear "out of round" 

 

the fact is you could just do a rod swop but why would you screw less than perfect back together when going for power results ?, you just wouldn't 

 

shes a slippery slope mate as a semi built engine will swollow 7-10K easy as the "basic" upgrade list is long !

 

a Typical mechanic/mechanical workshop will charge with machine costs and labour close to what a good aftermarket bottom end is to buy direct from Atomic or the like 

 

a cheap option is a new FGF6 short from Ford for ~ $3800 

drop it in with some good timing gear and a checked over head with new studs you should be able to get away with a solid 400rwkw capable package for around 7k if you're doing it yourself  

[razorbackfree]

Hey mate thanks for quick reply, been waiting 5 days in ford forums, that site is doa!

 

I get what your saying about a short, but say I went 10 thou rebore, surely if I source pistons, rods bearings and atomic oil pump, bolts and machining that going to come in under $3800?? Guess I need to ring around to see what a rebore costs with parts put together. When you mention timing gear do you just mean a good brand chain or more? Do you have an advise on what are the best brands to get? I'm thinking you have built a few of these motors right?

Cheers!

[eff xr6t]

If you fit a set of spool rods to it it will be cheap. I would disassemble the whole motor and check everything as it goes back together to be sure but at 70k if it's been looked after the bores will still be like brand new. When buying the rods spool usually come with the rods still requiring a Finnish hone to the small end bush which most machine shops should be able to do. Then it's just a case of checking all the clearance as you reassemble it. Would also add in there whilst your at it billet oil pump gears and port the housing and put all the upgraded atomic timing chain and guides. And some headstuds because why not.

If your capable of doing assembling the motor your self it will be relatively cheap.

$600 for rods
$150 at most to hone the small end to suit.
$100 for a new headgasket. Plus obviously all the gears,timing set etc but will be a stronger motor then a fg short.

This is what I would do if the car was mine and I would be happy to send it to 550+kw without being worried at all.

[arronm]

If you are going rods.   May as well put in a descent set of pistons. 

[razorbackfree]

Mate thx alot,

Was just looking at the spools then on fleabay.

It has 69K on the motor, but I brought it at 49K and its had sfa hard driving whatsoever due to a sh*tbox reco slushbox I brought rebuilt. It lost shifting from 3-4, now I've lost all but 1 and R.

So she only gets a drive around the block every month and a burnout when ford wins bathurst, lol.

Its my baby and and I have spent over 5K replacing every bush with superpro and pedders adj height and dampener suspension. Put a King sway bar in the front as well.

The car has sat in my garage under a cover for years, I know xr6's have come down, but I got it for a bargain and it has the ADR approved APS kit and everything is seriously like new.

I'm going to ditch the auto, will be doing the boxswap when I pull out the motor for the rods. I will simply get it all done in the one hit, so at least the missus will finally shut up/ (She's a American, cough I mean Expensive Daewoo supporter you see lol) I have a mal woods fully rebuilt t-56 all ready to go, with a triple plate carbon clutch, 4 pot brembo's and the bigger rear disc's to also bolt on. Going to do the duel zone at the same time, have all the parts like I said. Its a silhouette with the luxury pack.

So far I've done the mirror temp sensor, because I was sick for a year, but have been bouncing back strong of late so about to get stuck back into all my projects. 

So atomic oil pump gears and chain, headstuds, hone and gasket. This is what I'm talking about! And of course I will get the block checked in the process.

Below is a vid when the sludgebox worked, tyres get expensive!

Cheers!!

xr6t.mkv

[eff xr6t]

Only other extra thing I would add to the list as an option is to upgrade the wrist pins in the Pistons to the 250" thick pins. I've pulled a couple of my mates motors apart lately after a couple of years abuse and have all had bend wrist pins in them which were the pins that come with the forged piston kits. If you chose to do Pistons aswell it gets quite abit more expensive because you will need to bore and hone the motor.

At 70k I doubt they will be worn enough to worry. If your tuner is happy to tune to the power your looking for on cast Pistons then there is no reason to go forged really.

[razorbackfree]

Noted and 250" wrist pins added to the list. Yep those forged pistons are bloody expensive, need my stocks (trading) to keep moving up this week and it could be a maybe?

So just say I went forged, its a oversize/rebore needed, not a stock replacement?

I guess it all depends on how the bores are, like I said will get it measured while its apart, but say they are true, may stay with the stocks pistons???

I wonder what the failure rate is of stocky's? These fellas at the shop were great no BS, just straight up info and they do alot of Ford Turbo's

This site is awesome, thx fellas, I feel at home around here  

Edited 21/02/17 11:50 AM by razorbackfree

[razorbackfree]

Right dug up an old post regarding Mahles that went bad for a fella I copied ages ago

 

I don't show a 2618 Mahle Piston for the B series. 4032 is a great material 
for it's intended purpose, however that intended purpose is quieter operation 
lower power cars with less oil consumption. 4032 is not the material I would 
choose for a high power turbocharged car. This is the same material used in 
SRP Pistons, which again - are good pistons, but they are not the correct 
choice for what you are doing in my opinion. Your engine builder may prefer 
the Mahle 4032 pistons because he can run tighter clearances, but exactly for 
the reason that the 2618 pistons are a high expansion material, they are a 
better choice for something that will see a lot of abuse. 

 Personally on a sleeved engine with a 35R trying to make over 600whp I would 
run a 2618 piston. JE, CP, Wiseco, or Manley. I also recommend upgrading the 
wrist pins at this power level.

 I also would not be scared to use another CP Piston as your first post 
indicates that it was not the piston's fault. And on that same note, a 4032 
piston would have broken even quicker, and possibly more violently in that 
situation.

 

Anyone else agree 2618 better than 4032? 

[razorbackfree]

Dam this edit timeout...

One last thing, I have a tutorial I made ages ago about making your own pwr steering bleeder. But I can't work out how to up to tutorial section??

I have 15.1mb total over 9 pics.

Can I .rar them to someone that can get them posted?