2008 G6E Turbo "Cold Start" miss

[Clayton]

Apologies in advance for the following “Novel”.

3 years ago I bought my 2008 FG G6E Turbo (stock Std.) with 60k on it and I had no issues with it until 12 months ago when I had the 90K service done at approx. 82K, due to the age of the vehicle (currently at 95K).

The service was done by the selling Ford dealer here in Adelaide and it could be totally coincidental, but just days after the service I noticed an intermittent miss at cold start, that went away after approx. 30 – 45 seconds. At the start, it could be 3 or 4 days before it would do it again and importantly, if let for even 5 or 6 hours it would not do it again. It was only if left overnight, or if it sat at my work for 9 or 10 hours that the fault would return. Even on a 40 degree day, parked in full sun, it would still do it only if left long enough for, what appeared to be a case of the engine returning to normal ambient air temperature. It has never not started, it just idles crap on 1st cold start.

 I returned to the dealer to discuss possible causes and was advised straight up it was the Battery, which was duly replaced. Over the following weeks it continued to intermittently do it, so the vehicle was then left with the servicing dealer for days at a time over several weeks so they could hopefully replicate the cold start scenario and I even went there many mornings to show them what it was doing and to try and get it to play up whilst they had it. Eventually it did do it in their workshop and then the fun started.

I appreciate intermittent faults are hard to find and they had apparently never seen a cold start miss before in a G6ET. The list of checks that were carried out over the following days / weeks, include from memory (not in any order):

• Battery replaced

• Fuel Pump / Pressure Regulator checked at start up and overnight for any pressure drop

• Fuel Rail removed and cleaned

• Throttle Body cleaned

• Head Ports checked for “build up” and cleaned

• Fuel sample sent out for analysis

• Injectors checked for leakage, cleaned and tested

• Spark Plugs checked

• Coils checked

• Oxygen Sensor checked

• Latest software downloaded to ECU, although I was also told at the time of the service that the ECU was updated

• ECU swapped out with another vehicle from their yard for testing

• Apparently an Engineer from Melbourne also came over and looked at vehicle

• Compression checked

• Cylinder Leak Down test

• CO2 test of cooling sytem

After all this and with nothing obvious being found, I was told it was normal and most Falcon Turbos have poor cold idle. This Dealer then refused to return calls and would not even take bookings from me for other work to be done.

Over several months the miss got more regular and more severe and would ocassionally last several minutes, until eventually I had the “Check Engine” light display on the dash. Over the next week while I waited for the booking to come around, the dash light actually went on and off by itself several times while being driven. I took the car to another Ford Dealer closer to home, who cleared the codes (there were lots) and they wanted me to drive it until the “Check Engine” light returned so they could see the current codes. When taken back in, they were lucky enough to have it consistently play up and the codes indicated a miss on cylinder 1. They swapped components from cylinder to cylinder and the miss stayed with cylinder 1. After again replicating most of the above tests, although they were sure it was electrical, the only issue they could find was a slight dribble at no 1 Injector when left under pressure overnight and thus it was replaced.

The vehicle was flawless for several weeks, although slowly but surely the cold start miss has now returned to being evident 9 out 10 cold starts, although it is nowhere as severe now as it was at its worst point and there have been no further instances of the “Check Engine” light coming on. When starting the car now, I just hold the idle up at 1500 rpm till it clears and then have no further problems while driving. There are no other driveability issues and there is no loss of power or performance in any way even under really hard acceleration from low or high speed.

You can probably guess how much I have already spent on this issue, but I have some more coin saved up, ready to start looking further again. Has anyone ever come across this or a similar issue, or have any ideas on what I need to just start replacing regardless of how good it may test out? Or do I stick with my current philosophy of just drive it until it stops and the problem eventually becomes glaringly obvious?

Any suggestions or feedback will be appreciated.

[PTR_NITRO_FG]

Nice novel. Cant be of any help but can confirm the rough idle (mine also sometimes has tiny miss at traffic lights - you can feel the car (or engine) slightly moving but the rpm needle doesnt move).

But ive now adopted to the 'its a ford thing' lol 

I would tell you its all fine; except I have never had the check engine light come on....

Hopefully one of the gurus here has an opinion for you

Good luck!

P.s. love how the dealer sold the cleaning stuff....I too had the injector cleaner and head cleaner thingy done by Fraud

[shane0nz]

Mine is exactly the same idle, always has been, 2011 non turbo, wasnt going to throw money at useless ford dealer after clearing flat battery code during service and not thinking of advising/replacing the battery before handing it back, hows the exhaust tail pipe looking? Wet black 

[skidxr6t]

Were you given the results of the compression test or just told 'its all good' ?

Just now, Clayton said:

They swapped components from cylinder to cylinder and the miss stayed with cylinder 1.

this is why I ask about the compression test/etc results.

[Clayton]

No, unfortunately never got given the Compression figures and exhaust is just a nice even "Matt Black" with no discolouration.

  

[FiftyOne]

My f6 has a similar issue cranks like a champ and that first 10 seconds it idles like a dog. I noticed when I big toe the accelerator, the revs drop right off and it wants to stall out for a moment.  I've got a full aftermarket fuel system, and a new coil cell battery that I am truely astounded with, the only other thing it could be there might be an earth (which reminds me I need to spanner check everything in the engine bay) coils and plugs are good as far as I'm aware. So I'm still looking for a root cause. Other things have been a little more sparatic, like a fluctuating idle in neutral every now and again. So I'm thinking it might be for me a TB, maybe it's sticking overnight and the idle control goes to sh*t until it gets cracked open in gear the first time. It wouldn't be setting off a code though as even with the feedback loop it creates between the servo and the sensor, it might be too fine to set it off. 

 

I don't enough about the emmisions controls on the B/F series to know, but maybe the exhaust recirc valve could be sticking? Again, don't know enough, or even if they run one (can someone correct me pls?)

[FORCEDG6E]

Mine did same drove me nuts once it was tuned all sorted

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

[Clayton]

Fantastic news. I guess the next question is, who in Adelaide did you use that actually has good experience with these engines and who knows what they are doing? 

[turbotrana]

I think it could be related to how ford tune the vehicle to pass emissions. Mine has done it and a good tuner can tune it out. This may not make sense to you but once I got my hi slope value of the injector where I wanted it in the tune, no more sh*t starts.( I touched some other tables but not much) The ECU will use the hi slope on start up. You can also play with the cold start parameters in the tune but I didn't. I am in reverse as soon as my finger is off the key and off I go (this is in the coldest perth winter mornings). Maybe Jet can explain his magic potion.

Go buy HP tuners (tuning software for this vehicle) and you might get somewhere .

 

[JETURBO]

I can smell the sarcasm a mile away terry tuna 

I may know a thing or two clayton  

send me a PM if you're keen for any info