Diy Tuning

[JETURBO]

My point is more towards the fact of when will you know a vehicle’s hardware limitations in regards to efficiency with a bum Dyno ? 

 

You don't, you can’t measure that accurately without a tool that’s showing variations within 1 hp

 

This is the purpose of a Dyno, it’s an expensive tool to tune efficiency, again if we could get away without having to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on this tool and just hire one for a final pull to grab a number and a dyno sheet we would   

[BeerTurbo]

15 hours ago, BigKriss said:

Can anyone provide advice on this? Anything I can change?

Friend, you can change anything you want as long as your happy to live with the consequences.

 

I do want to know though, how rich is your car running on a full throttle pull with your wide-band readouts?

Your desired fuel table is....somewhat rich

 

but as jet said there not allways representative of what the cars doing, perhaps the tuner did this in a way to not play around with other tables that will afect the engines fueling. many tables, many calculations.

[gaz097]

Does your boost actually drop off as requested?

[rollex]

I will bet my left nut it is tuned in open loop like 95% of the cars out there and your desired boost table is ignored. Also that your fueling table is used to fudge around injector data that is not correct. I highly doubt it is running anywhere near 0.65 lambda.

 

Need to hire a dyno for a day, use a properly calibrated wideband, knock ears etc if you want to improve on the quality of the tune.

 

You could dial in the injectors better using LTFT only, but without knowing your starting point you will likely lean the vehicle out causing issues. 

 

Dyno and good datalogging equipment that you can trust is the key.

Edited 22/07/19 12:23 AM by rollex

[Romulus]

2 minutes ago, rollex said:

I will bet my left nut it is tuned in open loop like 95% of the cars out there and your desired boost table is ignored. Also that your fueling table is used to fudge around injector data that is not correct. I highly doubt it is running anywhere near 0.65 lambda.

And I'll bet my right nut your 100% correct.

[DarrylC]

17 hours ago, BigKriss said:

Hi, I have purchased pcmtec. I have been looking at my PCM tune provided with the car. its running a gtx3582r and 1000cc injectors, ford fg, stock motor. 390rwkw.

 

I can monitor air/fuel ratios.

 

Boost is targeted to dropoff after 4500 rpms (auF16459).  I thought with a turbo car, boost would be kept to the same until redline? maybe its a strategy to save the gearbox. My spark table looks the same as stock (via pcmtec compare function) but the fuel table (auF0172) has been changed.

 

Can anyone provide advice on this? Anything I can change?

 

 

As @rollex said it is probably tuned in open loop, most tuners seem to do that.

 

Go onto the PCMTec forums and have a look at Roll's posts in HOWTO section on Open Loop Boost Control. See if your car is setup to for Open Loop boost control.

 

I prefer Closed Loop boost control but basically you will have to set up the Wastegate Duty cycle to be accurate for the desired boost you are running anyway. You can get reasonable close by switching the car back into Open Loop, making small changes to the boost you desire and log the Wastegate duty cycle to get the approximate numbers required in the Wastegate Duty Cycle table. Populate table with those numbers and repeat for different boost levels. Fair bit of work.

[NA_TURBO]

Dyno numbers don't mean much unless you have the times to back it up at track.

If you have the right monitoring hardware, knock sensors etc, you can normally feel how a car is responding to various tune changes. I'm more talking about WOT and hi airload areas here, our engines are knock limited so in theory will hit a knock limit not a power limit.

Obviously depends on fuel and rpm too.

 

If you think you can dial a car in perfectly on a constant ramp rate and think this is going to show all real world conditions then you're dreaming.

[JETURBO]

1 hour ago, NA_TURBO said:

Dyno numbers don't mean much unless you have the times to back it up at track.

 

With out being rude this isn’t a Drag debate it’s a factual conversation regarding a calibrated tuning tool 

If you have the right monitoring hardware, knock sensors etc, you can normally feel how a car is responding to various tune changes.

 

Knock detection hardware is monitoring frequency noise associated with knock conditions, they can NOT detect if you’ve saturated a timing mark especially with knock reduction fuels - Again you will not “feel” this with a bum Dyno 

 

I'm more talking about WOT and hi airload areas here, our engines are knock limited so in theory will hit a knock limit not a power limit.

 

Anyone tuning a car to a knock event ONLY isn’t maximising a vehicle’s spark efficiency, remember why we use Knock frequency events ..... Again you will see this on a accurately plotted Torque graph on the Dyno 

Obviously depends on fuel and rpm too.

 

If you think you can dial a car in perfectly on a constant ramp rate and think this is going to show all real world conditions then you're dreaming.

 

Do you think all tuning is done via just power runs ? it’s not hence why steady state tuning is an actual “Thing” 

 

 

The more you know hey ....... 

Again it’s a highly calibrated tuning tool that’s utilised to it’s full capacity to dial a tune in under ALL conditions 

Maybe some people aren’t using their equipment to the full capacity and this wouldn’t surprise me as we heard last week regarding the AWD Dyno issue that’s an easy workaround but the operator didn’t understand clearly. 

 

again street tuning is 1 thing, Dyno tuning is another and it’s those things you may think you have a grasp of on the street that will show up incorrectly on a calibrated tuning tool.....who’s wrong ? 

[NA_TURBO]

I don't think anyone is wrong, and I didn't mean it to come across as knock sensors being able to tell you that you've exceeded a torque/spark limit.

I know of lots of big powered cars that have been street tuned and finished with the dyno.

Street tuning has it's place, but there's lots of things that you will feel on the street that a dyno won't pick up. You can't say that street tuning is useless.

[JETURBO]

I always data log on the street after a Dyno tune to make sure I’m seeing what I want but that’s as far as it goes 

 

The street part is majority to check for drivability manners and for a decent 1-2-3 WOT pull 

 

The bigger the target power the less you see on the street when data logging as it’s just wheel spin and crazy speeds, all the more reason to do it where you can gain traction and do it safely on the Dyno