Is Fpv T (typhoon) Value For Money?

[HSE2]

  hypnodoc said:

" But hit that open road where the real purpose of the GT can be experienced and there is truly no contest, you find that out at the first corner, at the second corner, and every corner after that."

.That’s interesting. I have driven both and the XR8 as well and when it comes to corners I would rate the XR6 higher than its V8 brothers. It is simply the best balanced car in Fords line up.

In turbo form, it’s detraction is a hole in the torque below about 2200rpm.

Its more noticeable if one is used to or has come from a V8 engine car. The Boss engines are a kind of cross between the old Windsor and the LS1. They aren't as torque friendly as the old motor especially in the lower RPM but are better then the hole the LS1 makes for itself fewer than 3500rpm

[Redhawk]

  HSE2 said:

  hypnodoc said:

" But hit that open road where the real purpose of the GT can be experienced and there is truly no contest, you find that out at the first corner, at the second corner, and every corner after that."

.That’s interesting. I have driven both and the XR8 as well and when it comes to corners I would rate the XR6 higher than its V8 brothers. It is simply the best balanced car in Fords line up.

In turbo form, it’s detraction is a hole in the torque below about 2200rpm.

Its more noticeable if one is used to or has come from a V8 engine car. The Boss engines are a kind of cross between the old Windsor and the LS1. They aren't as torque friendly as the old motor especially in the lower RPM but are better then the hole the LS1 makes for itself fewer than 3500rpm

Having owned a T for 6 months and driven the XR8 and now have had the GT for two months, driven all three cars over the same stretches of road, I suppose Scarp Road in the Stirling Ranges being the 'test' track I rate the GT the best handler, followed closely by the T, yes the T is very well balanced but IMHO the GT has the edge, the car is a little more rigid so the people at FPV have tweaked the suspension to give the GT better handling and balance. The 18" wheels help too and the Boss engine makes it so much easier to drive.

For those lucky enough to live in WA do Scarp Road from Nth Dandalup to Dwellingup then down to Pinjarra, or the other way and give me your impressions, a week day is better. less sight seers.

[hypnodoc]

  HSE2 said:

  hypnodoc said:

" But hit that open road where the real purpose of the GT can be experienced and there is truly no contest, you find that out at the first corner, at the second corner, and every corner after that."

.That’s interesting. I have driven both and the XR8 as well and when it comes to corners I would rate the XR6 higher than its V8 brothers. It is simply the best balanced car in Fords line up.

In turbo form, it’s detraction is a hole in the torque below about 2200rpm.

Its more noticeable if one is used to or has come from a V8 engine car. The Boss engines are a kind of cross between the old Windsor and the LS1. They aren't as torque friendly as the old motor especially in the lower RPM but are better then the hole the LS1 makes for itself fewer than 3500rpm

Having owned both cars, I can say that the T loses a lot of drivability over 200kph, especially braking and powering out of corners, on an undulating surface the T begins to float and bounce, whereas the GT remains unfussed and is just beginning to settle comfortably. Put your foot into at 200 and the GT will push you into the seat, not to mention at 10 kph above the T hitting its speed limiter (235kph), the GT is still 1000 rpm away from needing 5th gear. Still that said, a well set up T is a hard car to beat to 200kph, and definately less of a handful around town, but at high speed a heavy V8 has its definate advantages. :o

[HSE2]

Well you two guys must have a special GT. Either that or the roads you are driving on are LS1 billiard Flat and the corners are a fair distance between each other. Of four cars the GT was the only one to get the left front wheel to thump the inside guard. Unless the GT has had a front spring upgrade in the last 6 month, which it needs, the car suffer the greatest front under steer and rebound control. The GT repeated the same section to the same result except this time the thump was so severe in nearly took the car off line.

The test was done with two people on board. The best car through the same section of road was a Liberty GT. Lighter and AWD and when this car ran the road was partially wet so it had the worst of the conditions.

The Road used was part of the old Longford GP track that included the flying mile, just out of Launceston Tasmania.

The last time I spoke to Wayne Harrison (FPV- 2003MMS) the Boss cars are basically running a suspension set up that is very similar to the XR6. Time and dollars ran out to get them better but expect greater ground to be made with the new model. In his words he was extremely proud of the balance of the XR6 (nearly perfect)

I was also fortunate to crew for the Targa team in 2002 and caught up with the guys in 2003. Unless forced to by higher up it is unlikely the Boss cars will be run in this event. Steve and Greg Hoinville are exceptional operators with the nothing being left to chance. Their results over the last couple of years speak for themselves and the XR6T is their choice on these roads for good reason. They back their words with results. I believe the score stages for last year might still be available which basically proves my point. The balance of what is essentially large four door sedan allows it to perform well outside its rating. Michael Taylor’s Cethana time in the standard XR6T was 11th outright and simply brilliant. What isn’t widely recognized is that this time was achieved in torrential rain. He was up against AWD on a wet notorious road. A real road, no LS1 bias racetrack here a real road.

If you think I derive any pleasure from these words you would be wrong. My choice after the Subbie GT would be the GT Falcon. As a daily driver it is more like I am accustom to with torque on demand (nearly). But I would buy it with the knowledge that if my monthly jaunts down roads like Cethana and the Sidling (motor mag recognized roads) then I would really rather a XR6T in front then behind and I would stay away from them on club days on these roads. The weight over the front just can't handle these conditions and eventually the times and speed just falls away. Constant directional changes hurt the GT.

[HSE2]

  hypnodoc said:

Having owned both cars, I can say that the T loses a lot of drivability over 200kph, especially braking and powering out of corners, on an undulating surface the T begins to float and bounce, whereas the GT remains unfussed and is just beginning to settle comfortably. Put your foot into at 200 and the GT will push you into the seat, not to mention at 10 kph above the T hitting its speed limiter (235kph), the GT is still 1000 rpm away from needing 5th gear. Still that said, a well set up T is a hard car to beat to 200kph, and definately less of a handful around town, but at high speed a heavy V8 has its definate advantages.

:banghead:

Hmmmm. You have me at a disadvantage. I thought we were talking about corners and unless I am miss reading your comments, you seem to be suggesting you are arriving at the corner at 200kph braking and driving out of it at roughly the same sort of speed in which the T losses out in stability over the GT. I am assuming the undulations mentioned in the same paragraph are the same situation to your example.

One question for you! (Actually there is more but I will control myself )

Again I refer to FPV's own engineer in the difference between the GT and the XR6 in what you are describing as damper control. Ultimately this only goes so far in direction stability. Relying on damper control of mass doesn’t work.

Remember and you have changed your tack to include high speed work on what could only be a closed road or a race track. To obtain that sort of speed and to be drawing some sort of conclusion that points to handling over stability is a big stretch, but I will sarcastically bow to your wisdom on this point. I have to because I have not tried it.

You raised the point of cornering. I am now questioning exactly what corner can be taken at the speeds mentioned in your reply. I can assure you my guess at cornering speeds is in the region of 20 to 100kph. The corners flow one after another and there is no time to build much in the way of additional speed. These roads make you sick; your stomach is in a knot. If your passenger is not in one of two states (laughing head off or green) you aren't trying.

I incorrectly assumed based on my experience that to draw any comment and judgment of one car over another, you were at least testing them at limits above normal driving but under insane.

Any corner driven at normal speed would be a hard pick between any car. With normal speeds there is basically no challenge to the vehicle. Driving characteristic at over 200kph didn’t enter my mind when corners are used in the same sentence.

Respectfully ignore my comments and return to your normal viewing

[hypnodoc]

  HSE2 said:

[

Hmmmm.  You have me at a disadvantage.  I thought we were talking about corners and unless I am miss reading your comments, you seem to be suggesting you are arriving at the corner at 200kph braking and driving out of it at roughly the same sort of speed in which the T losses out in stability over the GT.  I am assuming the undulations mentioned in the same paragraph are the same situation to your example.

HSE2.

When you OWN both cars and get to drive them LOTS then you get a chance to make a sensible and unbiased opinion. I have already ordered another T, a Typhoon in fact and I think the T is a great car, and a better car around town than the GT. But out on the open road no hope, especially in standard form.

As for the targa, well the 2 Ts entered, 1 for the development of the Typhoon, they may have gone quick but neither fininshed, and as no one can pull the speed limiter from a T, it couldn't have a chance on the open road against a GT.

As far as the roads I'm talking about are concerned, normal flat surfaces with the usual undulations. Above 180kph the T is like a broken masted yatch in a leeward sea, and if you can bang a wheel against the stoppers in a GT, well I think you must have found an exceptional pothole. I don't mean to be offensive, but a standard T against a standard GT, the standard T is gonna have no chance (see site post from those who have tried) and an APS stage 1, will grab the GT between the lights, beyond that there is no contest.

With regards to braking, I was suggesting that the STANDARD BRAKES on a T are shocking, and FMC should be ashamed of themselves (SEE BRAKE POLL) they fade out in no time and shake an earthquake through the car if used above 160kph. At 200 kph the GT will still pull hard, and the standard T is running out of puff

[JB]

Does the extra 10k for the Typhoon mean they have also removed all the bugs that they cannot seem to fix in the current T?

However past that it sounds good, I still believe that from a branding perspective Expensive Daewoo offer a better premium product. (I said branding not in mechanical terms etc).

This is why so many punters are happy to fork out big $$ for a brand name like HSV, even when they know mechanically it is an inferior product. Just shows if you market properly and show good customer service, treat customers with respect, for a long term vision of continuing purchases of your cars, then you will sell more than you competitor who has a stronger product. ( Take note FMCO!, and stop treating your customers with the contempt and disrespect you do.)

Besides that the XR's are a bloody good product, pitty people with passion for these cars like represented on this forum do not get say in what is produced and how problems are rectified. :banghead:

[tongueboy]

  JBXR6T said:

Does the extra 10k for the Typhoon mean they have also removed all the bugs that they cannot seem to fix in the current T?

However past that it sounds good, I still believe that from a branding perspective Expensive Daewoo offer a better premium product. (I said branding not in mechanical terms etc).

This is why so many punters are happy to fork out big $$ for a brand name like HSV, even when they know mechanically it is an inferior product. Just shows if you market properly and show good customer service, treat customers with respect, for a long term vision of continuing purchases of your cars, then you will sell more than you competitor who has a stronger product. ( Take note FMCO!, and stop treating your customers with the contempt and disrespect you do.)

Besides that the XR's are a bloody good product, pitty people with passion for these cars like represented on this forum do not get say in what is produced and how problems are rectified. :banghead:

.... well said JB! To Ford PR and sales get this up you

[spadnium]

  alxr6t said:

  Ford BOSS said:

Guys, 6 speed should be available seeing as though it's BAII. Believe me, it will happen.  :banghead: I know the 6 speeders WILL come. It's a bit hard not to notice when they're right in front of you.........

So don't believe DRIVE. It will come. 

Good to see ya Geoff!

I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this new member's first post......

[HSE2]

  hypnodoc said:

  HSE2 said:

[

Hmmmm.  You have me at a disadvantage.  I thought we were talking about corners and unless I am miss reading your comments, you seem to be suggesting you are arriving at the corner at 200kph braking and driving out of it at roughly the same sort of speed in which the T losses out in stability over the GT.  I am assuming the undulations mentioned in the same paragraph are the same situation to your example.

HSE2.

When you OWN both cars and get to drive them LOTS then you get a chance to make a sensible and unbiased opinion. I have already ordered another T, a Typhoon in fact and I think the T is a great car, and a better car around town than the GT. But out on the open road no hope, especially in standard form.

As for the targa, well the 2 Ts entered, 1 for the development of the Typhoon, they may have gone quick but neither fininshed, and as no one can pull the speed limiter from a T, it couldn't have a chance on the open road against a GT.

As far as the roads I'm talking about are concerned, normal flat surfaces with the usual undulations. Above 180kph the T is like a broken masted yatch in a leeward sea, and if you can bang a wheel against the stoppers in a GT, well I think you must have found an exceptional pothole. I don't mean to be offensive, but a standard T against a standard GT, the standard T is gonna have no chance (see site post from those who have tried) and an APS stage 1, will grab the GT between the lights, beyond that there is no contest. :banghead:

With regards to braking, I was suggesting that the STANDARD BRAKES on a T are shocking, and FMC should be ashamed of themselves (SEE BRAKE POLL) they fade out in no time and shake an earthquake through the car if used above 160kph. At 200 kph the GT will still pull hard, and the standard T is running out of puff

Not sure to laugh or cry

1. No both cars didn't fail to finish. Car 930 finished in the top ten

2. You are all over the place with the construction of your comments

Owning any product is neither a perquisites nor necessary on making an unbiased comment. To even list it is an insult and displays gross amounts of ignorance.

Watered down that basically reads- until you own both cars shut your mouth and keep your opinions to yourself. If you don’t like comments being questioned or are unable to explain yourself then forums aren’t the place to raise the points.

As I have stated your definition of open road is certainly not mine. You continually refer to top speed work in which case there is no argument and I don’t believe I questioned aspects of braking.

I will direct your back to your original comment that I questioned.

“But hit that open road where the real purpose of the GT can be experienced and there is truly no contest, you find that out at the first corner, at the second corner, and every corner after that."

I didn't agree with that comment with constraints and in context. Plain and simple. You introduced the GT 's ability to handle corners over that of the XR6T. Not travel at warp speed and drag light shuffles. I won't be side tracked with railroading aimed comments.

Generally speaking people don't make comments for no reason. I can't say I have ever read where the previous owner of an XR6T has switched to a GT and been disappointed. And that is the way it should be. The GT sits up the tree and Ford would be in trouble if it was anything other than that was happening. I have already admitted that the GT would be my choice, but ultimately you and I aren't talking about the same thing. The GT isn’t the car to take on hill climbs and Targa like work in my experience. The XR6 remains the better balanced package from which to start and that is the simple unbiased truth like it or lump it. It is based on spring and damper set ups compared to the weight above the front axle. It is an opinion that I have formed myself from my experiences and with consultation with FPVs own engineers and their track experience during testing. In fact that conversation was the high light of my life. Although I got the reasons for the handling wrong and I was assuming the limit had been reached too early, he claimed that only the very top people at FPV and Ford would have the ability to find what I did. That is the 100% truth. Of coarse I have no way of knowing if it was genuine but it certainly made me feel good about my ability to test a car. That’s all I have to offer in response to not owning the cars in question.

Modern Competition

Classifications Outright - Progressive

Leg 5 - FINAL

Subject to outcome of protest by Car 933

Sorted By Classification

Posted at: 18/05/2003 9:23:46 PM

Unless marked 'FINAL' these scores are subject to validation

Notes:

OOLT

DNF

====== = Out Of Late Time or Missed Control/s

= Did Not Finish

= Cleaned Stage

Base Time = is the target time set for a crew to complete a stage without incurring a time penalty

Pen Time = Penalty time is the actual time taken by a crew on a stage less the Base time

Late Time = each crew has a maximum time in which to complete a stage. Late time is the time taken over the maximum time

Veh

No Crew

Vehicle

Cat/

Class Capacity

Total

Time O/All

Pos Overall

Margin

919 Richards - Oliver 2000 Porsche 911 Turbo 9LMSD 6120 0:22.30 1

806 Glenney - Lang 1995 Nissan Skyline GT-R V-Spec N1 8LMSC 4420 0:23.40 2 1.10

977 Broadbent - Goedheer 1999 Porsche 911 GT3 9LMSC 3600 0:24.09 3 1.39

899 Garwood - Perry 1995 Porsche 911 Turbo 8LMSD 6120 0:25.01 4 2.31

996 Quinn - Wenn 2001 Porsche 911 Turbo 9LMSD 6120 0:25.52 5 3.22

05 Brock - Gigney 2002 Expensive Daewoo Monaro CV8 T3 9LMSD 5700 0:29.04 6 6.34

903 Rattray - Jackson 2002 Subaru Impreza WRX STi 9SRE 3396 0:30.00 7 7.30

959 Burke - Botha 2000 Porsche 911 GT3 9LMSC 3600 0:30.28 8 7.58

936 Blackie - Ransom 1999 Porsche 911 GT3 9LMSC 3600 0:30.41 9 8.11

930 Hoinville - Williams 2002 Ford Falcon XR6 Turbo 9LMSD 6800 0:32.13 10 9.43