Photo Essay - Swapping Brembo Calipers Between Ba/bf And Fg

[PhilMeUp]

Part 1 - Comparing BA/BF and FG Brembo Calipers

Quick Summary:
- Brembo calipers can be swapped between BA/BF and FG fairly easily.
- Doing so involves swapping over the mounting brackets, bleed nipples and fluid crossover pipes.
- There will also be an issue with brake lines, and might require the making of custom lines (ie length).

When Ford released the FG Falcon in 2008 the front end had changed from the BA/BF layout. People that wanted to transfer their Brembo calipers from their BA/BF were told that they could transfer the calipers to their FG by swapping the mounting brackets over.

I recently bought a set of six piston Brembo calipers that came off an FG and will be going on to a BFII that I have purchased. I’ve also got a set of six piston Brembo calipers on my taxi (BFIII wagon). Thus, I was in a unique position to have both BF and FG Brembo calipers side by side.

This meant that I could have a look and figure out what it really takes to swap Brembo calipers from BA/BF to FG.

I decided to compare the driver side calipers, so started by removing the driver side caliper from the taxi. Since September 2011, these calipers have done somewhere around 450,000km on two different cars.



Another angle of the Brembo caliper on the BF. I have also disconnected the brake line, in anticipation of removing the caliper.



To make it easier to get the caliper off and back on again, I used a brake pad separator to push the brake pads apart (and the caliper pistons back in).

I bought this Disc Brake Pad Spreader from Radum some time ago and it’s proven to be extremely useful when doing anything to do with brakes. It’s relatively small and fits in the toolbox, and pushes brake pistons back in easily.

Radum: http://www.radum.com.au
Stock Number: RDM-BM94-4062
Current Price: $27.00 (including GST)
Link: http://radum.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8685



Once I had the caliper off the car (and the brake line removed) I used an end from an old brake line to seal the hole. If you’ve ever got any old brake lines then it’s worth cutting the ends off for this task before throwing the old lines out.



I had already washed the FG calipers during the week, so only had to clean the BF one. I used CT18 in a weed sprayer bottle and some brushes.



Plenty of brake dust and grime to wash off.



Once both calipers were cleaned up I could have a look and compare any differences. Much to my delight they both had the same Brembo part number - 20.A001.02. This meant that at least the caliper blocks are identical.



A close-up photo of the Brembo part number on the caliper.



Then I could compare the differences between the calipers. Although the caliper blocks are identical, the bleed nipples and fluid pipes are on opposite ends of the calipers. This is because on the BA/BF the calipers go in front of the axle, but go behind the axle on the FG.



There are other Brembo brackets with other part numbers, but on my BF brackets the part numbers are 20.A002.04 for the driver side and 20.A002.03 for the passenger side.



I don’t have a bench and vice, so I put the caliper bracket in my hydraulic press to hold it in place while I removed the bracket bolts. This required a 10mm allen key. These were quite tight, so my Ampro T29771 1/2-Inch Drive Standard Extendable Ratchet was used to give extra leverage. This extendable ratchet is extremely useful for providing the extra leverage to loosen bolts that are done up extra tight.



While the bolts were out I measured them. The threads are 70mm long, the width is M12 and the thread is a 1.5.







I then put the LH (ie passenger side) FG bracket on to the RH (ie driver side) caliper. The FG bracket part numbers on my calipers are M8-FG-355-BKT-LH and M8-FG-355-BKT-RH.



I fitted the caliper on to the BF and could see how the bleed nipples and fluid pipe were now in the wrong locations. These can be removed and swapped over.



A photo showing the FG bracket on the BF. However, the FG bracket also positions the caliper in a different rotational position, resulting in the BF brake line then being too long.



I tried fitting one of the Goodridge braided lines that came with the calipers. However, the FG lines have a slight angle on one end, whereas the BF ones need to be straight.



I’ve always had trouble with the rubber grommets breaking into pieces. I’ve gotten around this by buying replacement grommets and hacksawing a groove through so that they can be slid into place over the brake lines. When the grommets are rotated into position they get squeezed tight, which prevents the brake lines from sliding back and forth through the grommets.



I tried putting the FG line on the other way around, so that the line angled away from the caliper instead of toward it.

Edited 10/05/15 08:12 PM by PhilMeUp

[PhilMeUp]

I compared the BA/BF brake line and the FG one. They were the same length.



However, with the FG line angled away from the caliper, the brake line was getting pushed against the shock absorber on full steering lock.



Putting the FG line back on but angled toward the caliper sort of works, but will place extra force onto the grommet. Not suitable.



I also found that despite the BA/BF line and FG line being the same length, there seemed to be a lot of excess brake line on the FG one. This also meant that the brake line could potentially come into contact with the steering rack.



The disadvantage to swapping calipers between BA/BF and FG is that the fluid pipes will need to be removed and swapped over. I’ll be doing this another time with a flare spanner, but the caliper paint will get chipped off when I do so.



The caliper in position on the BF with the FG bracket.



I didn’t want any chance of the calipers and brackets coming apart, so removed each bolt and put some Loctite 222 on each one.



The two driver side calipers, side by side.



I wanted to remove the brake pads from each caliper. The six piston calipers have pistons of different sizes, and I wanted to make sure that these also matched between the two calipers. To push out the pins that hold the pads in place, I use a Trojan 4mm Nail Punch (TJP5040) and a Finkal Long Series 4mm Punch (CLP305).



The Trojan punch has a concave end, which prevents it from sliding off the pins when tapped with a hammer or mallet. However, the shaft then goes wide, which means that it can only go into the caliper by a few millimetres.

I wanted something that goes right through the caliper holes so that it could push the pins further through. This is required on the Brembo rear four piston calipers.

However, the flat end on the Finkal punch means that there’s a risk of the punch sliding off the pin when tapped with a hammer. The punch then slides off to the side and on to the caliper, thus scratching the caliper. One of these days I’ll carve a concave end into the end of the Finkal punch with either a drill or Dremel.



Here you can see how the concave end of the Trojan punch prevents it from sliding off the pin.



Another photo showing the part numbers on the Brembo caliper and FG bracket - 20.A001.02 on the caliper and M8-FG-355-BKT-LH on the bracket (which is now on the right side of the car).



Once I had the brake pads out of each caliper I was able to confirm that the pistons were in the correct order . You can see the three different sizes of piston in each caliper.



As seen before, the FG places the caliper in a different rotational position on the car compared to the BA/BF bracket. You can see in this photo the difference in gaps between the caliper and bolt hole on each bracket.



A photo showing the caliper on the BF with the FG bracket.



A photo showing the original BF caliper on the BF. You can now see how the FG brackets position the calipers in a different position. This is what creates the problem with the extra brake line length when trying to fit the FG brake line to the BF.



Although I’ve now confirmed that BA/BF brackets and FG brackets can be swapped over, I’ve lined up a deal to swap my FG brackets for some BA/BF ones. This will ensure that the calipers are positioned as they normally are on a BF and I’ll be able to use standard length BF braided brake lines.

When the BFII that these calipers are intended for arrives in a few weeks then I’ll swap the bleed nipples and fluid pipes over on each caliper. I’ll also be looking for a solution for repainting the ends of the fluid pipes. There is a Fiat colour called Rosso Tiziano that is identical to the Brembo red, so I’ll probably buy bottle of touch-up paint.

I’ll update this with part 2 when I fit these to the BFII.

[FiftyOne]

All hail Phil for yet another top write up. What are the rotors your running there? some sort of 2 piece

[PhilMeUp]

All hail Phil for yet another top write up. What are the rotors your running there? some sort of 2 piece

Yep, DBA5000 two-piece discs.

[FiftyOne]

Worth it?

[PhilMeUp]

Worth it?

I need to replace the outer rings on mine. Got a price today of $360... each side.

My ego likes having discs that no-one else has. My wallet doesn't quite think the same way.

I could buy a pair of new DBA4000s for a bunch less than $720. No idea why the outer rings are so damn expensive.

Nice idea, but highly overpriced.

[barnz]

Apparently one of the advantages of the 2 piece is less heat transfered to the stub axle and wheel bearing. How well that works and how much of a benefit that is I'm not 100% on.

[FiftyOne]

Being a bearing/hub design I wouldn't think it'd be too much of an issue anyway. (I want a shiny gold set to match the wheels I want ) wank

[orange11]

So...Is there any problem with running an FG 6/4 Brembo setup on a BA long term. 
It is impossible to find BA brackets/kits and FG kits are selling fairly cheap.

Any reason, other than slightly higher brake caliper position that would be negative?

[OZYWALKER]

Give race brakes Sydney a call. Matt can have the correct brackets made up.