Brake Shudder - On The Hunt For The Problem. Over Heated Brake Fluid?

[***VX*R8***]

I might have to test mine out soon and see if the problem is still there.

If it is I'll probably try doing what Ralph said and replace bushes to see if that helps.

[RBSMATT]

  On 05/12/2014 at 10:36 PM, Butt Plug said:

how do u think I know there junk ?

the panda got a set after the same pelican recommended them to us also

I don't think I have ever been called a Pelican from a Butt Plug before lol

The Bremtec Endure brake pads are not a bad pad and I actually run them myself in my own car and have no issues at all apart from the odd squeak sometimes. For everyday drivers they seem ok but they are not a high temperature performance brake pad and they are designed for low dust which most people agree on and we use them in FPV and HSV vehicles for street use and again with minimal issues.

In some instances we are finding that the Endure pads may be leaving pad material deposits on the rotors causing the shudder and this is not uncommon in the industry as we see it also in the Bendix CT pads and many other brands as well mainly where low dust pads are asked for. The reason that these are likely to cause this issue is because the brakes are reaching temperatures outside of what temperatures there designed for and you can overheat brakes without realiziing it.

A common example of how brakes can be overheated.

You see the traffic stopped down the road and you depress the brake pedal to slow down and as this happens the pad makes contact with the rotor and as soon as that happens the temperature begins to rise and with the gradual braking it causes temperatures to increase and by the time you get to a full stop chances are you haven't taken your foot off that brake pedal at all or only for a moment at the least and the whole time the heat is rising your also now sitting there stopped with your foot on the pedal holding all that heat in so the possibilities of brakes overheating are high. This also explains why the majority of issues we find are in automatic cars.

As a brake specialist dealing with brakes 8-10 hrs a day I get calls and emails every day with all sorts of brake complaints and problems and many from the Ford Forum community to which we support and I can tell you I get more people complaining about issues with A1RM HPX Bendix Ultimates SRT Remsa and such that there is no perfect pad on the market. These complaints range from too dusty too noisy or they are too harsh on the rotors and they are marked plus shudder and pulsation problems etc etc.The pads I just mentioned are also more higher performance and have a bit better co efficient of friction as well aand as most of them are harsher on the rotors they will generally wipe off any material deposits.

When buying pads ask yourself is dust really an issue or do I need std pads when I really need higher temp performance pads and vice versa. Everyone wants low dust pads that don't wear out rotors and are not noisy and are also cheap but there is no perfect pad and all pads have there own issues but most of all it is how you drive and brake in your car.

Hopefully this information has helped you in some way and that we don't go out of our way to sell people crap pads and we generally sell people pads what there asking for.Remember once you have found the correct pads the cleaning of components and the bedding in of brake pads is more important these days as ever before and must be done.

Edited 26/01/15 11:31 PM by RBSMATT

[GeGe6]

Well said!

[RBSMATT]

PS. I would also like to say that I have been working with Marco to help with his brake issue that also the guys at Bremtec have also offered to solve any issues but a decision to run a different pad by Marco was eventually decided and we have helped him do just that.

If anyone has any issues at all with anything we have sold them please contact us first and we will always try and solve any issues.

Edited 26/01/15 11:52 PM by RBSMATT

[GeGe6]

Can't do much more than that!

Wish there was more costumer service like this!

[barnz]

Well from recent reports matt it would seem that the PMU NS400's are pretty much the perfect pad. Yet to try them myself though.

I have found the a1rm's to be excellent, I expected dust and noise though...they actually quite down after a beating and only get noisy when the missus has been driving to work all week. I'm not sure how people end up with all these dramas, I beat the hell out of mine regularly and havent had the T3's fail me yet but I suspect the root of most problems isn't actually the brakes themselves, or at least it didn't start there.

[turbotrana]

This thread will still be here in 10 years time!!!

A dial indicator gauge is your friend. Use it. Use it before you take your old discs off to measure the runout of the old disc, use it to measure the runout of the hub, use it to measure the runout when you put the new disc on. And when your brake shudder comes back again cause you used pads that are not abraisive enough, use it again.

As I said before, cast iron moves. A cast iron disc that has a runout of a few thou when new and 20 thou after 10000km means only one thing. The cast iron has moved.

The only way to stop it is to do what alot of Euro cars do. They run agressive abraisive brake pads that wear the disc (which is a consumable) but keep the disc true.

[RBSMATT]

  On 27/01/2015 at 1:05 AM, barnz said:

Well from recent reports matt it would seem that the PMU NS400's are pretty much the perfect pad. Yet to try them myself though.

I have found the a1rm's to be excellent, I expected dust and noise though...they actually quite down after a beating and only get noisy when the missus has been driving to work all week. I'm not sure how people end up with all these dramas, I beat the hell out of mine regularly and havent had the T3's fail me yet but I suspect the root of most problems isn't actually the brakes themselves, or at least it didn't start there.

The PMU NS400 is a very good brake pad and the newer version has also come down in cost as they used to be called just NS I only wish they made the Hawk Ceramic pads in the std twin piston shape. The only issue with the NS400 pad is they don't have the shims on the pads and still some people find they can squeal but anyone can make a pad squeal depending on how you drive it.

I think your secret is you buy a pad and rotor combo that is designed for your driving style and in that you expect the noise and dust.

  Quote

turbotrana

This thread will still be here in 10 years time!!!

A dial indicator gauge is your friend. Use it. Use it before you take your old discs off to measure the runout of the old disc, use it to measure the runout of the hub, use it to measure the runout when you put the new disc on. And when your brake shudder comes back again cause you used pads that are not abraisive enough, use it again.

As I said before, cast iron moves. A cast iron disc that has a runout of a few thou when new and 20 thou after 10000km means only one thing. The cast iron has moved.

The only way to stop it is to do what alot of Euro cars do. They run agressive abraisive brake pads that wear the disc (which is a consumable) but keep the disc true.

I do agree and another thing people don't realize is that every manufacturer uses a different metal/carbon ratio or mixture when they make rotors and also the temperature of the rotor when being made will fluctuate hence not all rotors are the same. Thanks for your input turbotrana.

[masda74]

Matt, Thanks for the updates and for the assistance in getting this resolved. I have not changed the brake pads from the OEM ones to the new ones. That is planned for this weekend.

Kids and life have been in the way lately.

I have a few things planned for this weekend and I am hoping that the speed bleeders arrive from the US of A before Friday.

I have received the brake fluid tested(as recommended by PhilMeUp. Did a test last night and he brake fluid is fine.

The first LED lit up which means it is fine, even though it still looks like the photos in the first post.

Syringe will b purchased today or tomorrow from the Ascot Vet to assist in removing the current brake fluid in the car.

New fluid will be put in.

[GeGe6]

More details on speed bleeders.