Surge Tank + Fuel Pump, When Do You Need Them And Why?

[MattyP]

But more capable if you look at the data.

However with the same evidence you and I have we come to different conclusions.

I won't be changing my mind on the 044 in its current state unless it's improved.

Noise for me is an issue. Although all the road noise and exhaust noise would drown it easily. Which reminds me I should fix that.

And I've seen an 044 do that. It's a risk we all run.

It kind of reminds me of the everything's ok alarm homer made

[luke187]

Luke those surge tanks are pure junk on ebay

Super thin walled, very prone to leaking ( seen a few now ) and this is just the start

Surge tanks need to be correctly baffled internally and this is just the start of it, the plaz and pw undercar surge tanks are ok value for money when u look at the quality and finish then backed up with the quickest and highest power turbo falcons in the country and countless other vehicles over the past decade

Proven product for reasonable coin to suit nearly any fuel demanding situation

Fair enough. I guess for me new to the ford scene I was just blown away by the prices of things. Surge tanks, airboxes, interoolers, forged motors etc.. Nobody wants junk on their car especially when I comes to fuel systems but theres gotta be a middle road somewhere

[MattyP]

I was exactly the same mate.

You can't do it on the cheap

But you can do it on a budget

[k31th]

Cheap is just a comparative term. They aren't the cheapest pump available - but they are proven to be a very good quality pump (if you buy genuine) time and time again. Noisy - yes, when mounted badly - when mounted correctly there's bugger all noise.

[luke187]

True that. Serious question though, if I can buy off the shelf or custom made units for other cars for $3,4,500 whats up with falcon ones costing $11,12,1300? Is it a case of cornered market, falcons having an unsuaually high demand for heavily engineered fuel systems, or something else?

[k31th]

low production volumes.

[KPM Motorsport]

Explain????

How can an intank make more power than a surge???

Surge tanks inherantly heat the fuel quicker and at a much more aggressive non-linear rate than an intank system.

Especially on forced induction Turbo cars , we find that the more under bonnet heat and exhaust temp generated by extra boost and load the quicker the fuel temperature spikes.

This is due to surge tanks continously recirculating the heated fuel rail fuel back to approx only 2 litres of surge tank resevoir capacity and then re-using it again back to the rail. We call this superheating the fuel.

On intank systems the fuel is returned back to the swirl pot , however this time is mixed with fresh scavenged fuel at approximately a 1:1 ratio.

Also Intank system are generally surrounded by at least 10 litres of fuel onwards ( depending on how much you have in the tank) . This means that the heated return fuel from the rail is returned to a much larger volume of fuel .

Clunky analogy:

Add 1 litre of hot water to 2 litres of cool water.

versus

add 1 litre of hot water to 10 litres of cool water

The hotter the fuel , the less energy it has to make power

The hotter the fuel , the more prone it is to boiling , aeartion and surge

The hotter the fuel the less cooling effect it has on intake temperatures meaning less ability to add maximum timing and boost

The hotter the fuel , the less grunt.

In short fuel boils at approx 25 deg c at atmospheric pressure and appox 60-65 deg c at 400 kpa rail pressure.

We aim to keep as far away from these temps as possible.

Edited 29/10/14 10:49 PM by KPM Motorsport

[rollex]

Surely there are surge tanks on the market with the return line going to the main tank making that point moot?

[rednose]

Surge tanks inherantly heat the fuel quicker and at a much more aggressive non-linear rate than an intank system.

Especially on forced induction Turbo cars , we find that the more under bonnet heat and exhaust temp generated by extra boost and load the quicker the fuel temperature spikes.

This is due to surge tanks continously recirculating the heated fuel rail fuel back to approx only 2 litres of surge tank resevoir capacity and then re-using it again back to the rail. We call this superheating the fuel.

On intank systems the fuel is returned back to the swirl pot , however this time is mixed with fresh scavenged fuel at approximately a 1:1 ratio.

Also Intank system are generally surrounded by at least 10 litres of fuel onwards ( depending on how much you have in the tank) . This means that the heated return fuel from the rail is returned to a much larger volume of fuel .

Clunky analogy:

Add 1 litre of hot water to 2 litres of cool water.

versus

add 1 litre of hot water to 10 litres of cool water

The hotter the fuel , the less energy it has to make power

The hotter the fuel , the more prone it is to boiling , aeartion and surge

The hotter the fuel the less cooling effect it has on intake temperatures meaning less ability to add maximum timing and boost

The hotter the fuel , the less grunt.

In short fuel boils at approx 25 deg c at atmospheric pressure and appox 60-65 deg c at 400 kpa rail pressure.

We aim to keep as far away from these temps as possible.

You're obviously aware of the setup I have and are following the thread on AFF.

I would like to see similar tests that I am doing with one of your intank setups, not pouring hot water into cold water.

You fail to mention that the surge tank is made of alluminium (not plastic) and ambiemt air temp flows past it and helps cool it.

I do not think I would benefit from a KPM intank, not saying it doesn't work, just saying I can't see the need to upgrade.

[JETURBO]

KPM

george has made the effort to supply fuel temps/volumes/time/distances on AFF

Wheres your data in this very simple test ?

You have claimed to do every test under the sun but wheres these stats ? You say surge tanks are "boiling" the fuel but georges stats are no where boiling and also seen once a temp is maintained and cool bowser fuel added the temp didnt "cool" the existing tank fuel where id say your basis to you claims lie

Can u supply these basic stats so we can cut the B/S on writing off one product but not another