Surge Tank + Fuel Pump, When Do You Need Them And Why?

[MattyP]

Hope unbias testing begins.

[ratter]

here's some data on a stock FG pump flow figures.

http://www.fordxr6turbo.com/forum/topic/81721-fg-fuel-pump-testing/

This info is not available at many places as most operators do not have this equipment, we can run any rwd car on our dyno and measure what is actually occurring in the fuel system, but obviously does not factor in fuel moving away from the swirl pot/pump under acceleration/cornering etc.

Something else to remember, is the surge tank it self does not flow more fuel, that's the job of the fuel pump no matter where it's located, many seem to be confused on this matter

[ms700]

Fuel boils at around 40C. Anyone feel free to correct me if im wrong.

Id rather have all excess fuel return from the rail head back to the tank, where there is a whole lot more fuel already there to cool it down, than recycle it through a surge tank. Ive heard my 044 on my surge struggling to pump hot fuel when the external temps start rising.

As soon as I find a FG tank, ill be installing that, and a KPM intank module.

[JETURBO]

Either the pump is the problem or the swirl pot is, which is it?

I find that very hard to believe.

You my friend need to take a big step back and read further along the grape vine

These cars are 13 years old now and heaps and heaps of "data" is out there along side just as much blown engines

The path your trying to walk is a bloody road now that its been traveled so many times, either accept the results that you see or become a "pioneer" but I might mention its been covered in more depth than anyone cares to read again

Its very simple been there done that

Stock BA pump good for ~ 250rwkw if its not already knackered

Stock BF pump good for same but has a little better tank design

Stock FG pump good for ~290 rwkw and better tank design again

This is all at ~0.8 lambda and 13.8v on a clean filter

Typical upgrades are walbro 255 good for ~350rwkw but still have surge issues due to tank desings hence why typical chassis mount surge tanks remove this common surge issue ( worst BA/BF/ then FG )

Also some new drop in complete pump/cradle desings are doing this job well

Again all this has been flogged to death and also limitations of aftermarket surge tank/pumps and drop in units

Ask any tuner what works and what u need before buying stuff trust me itl save u in the long run

[ms700]

Also note guys, this isnt FF........

[rollex]

Ask any tuner what works and what u need before buying stuff trust me itl save u in the long run

Not all have recommended pumps to be upgraded, and I've had inconsistent feedback on when a surge tank is needed hence the thread.

[JETURBO]

Half of the issue is dyno's and sqew numbers hence why I used ~ ( approx )

The other issue is dynos do not replicate driving conditions

On the dyno some tuners see parts run out when AFR rises higher than targeted but whats already happened if the tailpipe is showing lean ????

that's right already past the point of acceptiable imho

Very few have what mick and rob herrod have in regards to the "fuel module" on the mainline but there are some very easy steps tuners can and will take to see if a fuel system is up to scratch or at least can back up some repeatability

There seems to be a lot that rides on knowledge and sometimes coupled with laziness but one thing for sure is each car/pump/set up is different to the next and not equal

( wear on parts/pumps/filters/regs ) etc etc but as a very solid and on the side of safe guideline suggestions like an intank at the power figures I suggested work well

Surge tanks are there to combat surge, when a car gets that can be dependent on many things but if u factor in the "magical" sub 300rwkw as needing an intank and 350rwkw mark as needing a surge tank or big intank unit ull be 9.5/10 in a good place

[rollex]

So people saying they are making 320-350 on stock fuel pumps, what do you make of that?

[rednose]

Mine made 370rwkws with just a 255 intank, less than 1/4 tank and it would surge.

Upgraded to an A1000 and plaz surge and have never ever had a problem with surge, we are now up to 470rwkws.

[JETURBO]

So people saying they are making 320-350 on stock fuel pumps, what do you make of that?

The same thing I make of any power claim ..........

Mick has proven at the 300 mark there is zero fuel in the return line of an fg with his really expensive and accurate module

What do u think will happen directly after 300 ?

I know empire_mechanical_racing was bragging they made 368rwkw on a FGF6 the other day on stock cooler/pump/injectors but failed to post the dyno graph with boost or afr

After asking for them to do the run with afr showing they deleted me off instgram lol

The place your going does his thing we did ours but at the lower end of the scale a part sub $200 ( walbro 255ltr )is the difference between having fuel there to do three clean back to back runs on the dyno or completing just one ( and this is a very basic way to see a fuel system opperate )

Is your engine worth $200 or even $300 if u pay for them to do it ?

Yes I have lovely dyno graphs replicating this but someone got very upset with me so I wont be posing them