rollex Member 683 Member For: 10y 6m 7d Gender: Male Location: Australia Posted 22/10/14 10:28 AM Share Posted 22/10/14 10:28 AM I keep reading about people installing surge tanks, curious when and why this is needed, eg what happens if you don't install it and what are the pros if you do?Fuel pump, when do people start replacing the stock item and why? Is it because the stock flow is not enough or is it a reliability issue, if the latter what are the signs it should be replaced?Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyP MattyP Cruise Control 6,317 Member For: 12y 7m 11d Gender: Male Location: Central Coast Posted 22/10/14 11:13 AM Share Posted 22/10/14 11:13 AM Some are for surges Some are against I'm in the latter Quiet simply the standard pump can only provide soo much flow to the injectors A walbro 460 is good for 400rwkw and are only around 400 if you shop around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Stripes. All stock bar the k&n panel filter Silver Donating Members 8,061 Member For: 12y 9m 1d Gender: Male Location: Perth Posted 22/10/14 11:16 AM Share Posted 22/10/14 11:16 AM Worst that can happen is you surge, you run lean and grenade your engine... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discostig Manual mode ________________________ All day, erryday Donating Members 13,798 Member For: 17y 20d Gender: Male Location: Probably above atmospheric pressure Posted 22/10/14 11:19 AM Share Posted 22/10/14 11:19 AM (edited) +1Surgies are said to be needed anywhere from 300-350rwkw and up, reason for it was in the fuel tank the pickup is not at the rear of the tank, so if you have lower fuel levels and floor it, there's a chance that the fuel could slosh away from the pickup and cause air to get sucked instead. Low fuel supply causes a surging feeling and possibly lean out/dead engine. Have heard Utes and the BF (or BF2?) onwards are not as prone to this surge problem. Utes coz of different tank shape and BF+ due to better swirl pot design.For that reason I don't flog the car under about 1/3 of a tank. My rule used to be a half but I've gotten more complacent over time and do get off the pedal a bit sooner in those situations.I'm very interested in either a better in tank set up that is anti-surge or the external surge tank from Process West that I think contains the pumps inside the tank itself, thus much quieter.Legalities potentially arise with external surge tanks, being a fuel cell that is metal in the event of a crash I think, unlike the plastic factory item that is designed to crumple and not ignite the fuel (again, I think). Edited 22/10/14 11:21 AM by -Stever- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollex Member 683 Member For: 10y 6m 7d Gender: Male Location: Australia Posted 22/10/14 11:21 AM Author Share Posted 22/10/14 11:21 AM Has anyone done any science on the issue and found out at what G forces you do lean out from the stock tank?What about the stock fuel pump, what is it rated to L/hr and at what power level does this become insufficient? Has anyone looked at the datasheets and worked this out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genuine honest person Member 2,769 Member For: 10y 10m 16d Gender: Male Location: near brisbane Posted 22/10/14 11:22 AM Share Posted 22/10/14 11:22 AM ah, is that all . thought it would do more damage . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demon1300 Member 435 Member For: 12y 10m 6d Gender: Male Posted 22/10/14 11:24 AM Share Posted 22/10/14 11:24 AM I guess that old tendencies tend to suggest that a surge tank is required after certain power levels. This is almost null and void these days with products like the kpm intank surge setup.Pros for a surge:- can make heaps more power safely- can have pump redundancy- rail pressures never fluctuate due to high volume pump never not having a constant supply of fuel, even under hard cornering & acceleration- similar to point above but injectors will never have a lean patch due to pumps scavenging for fuel- fuel can become cooler on some setups due to less pump thrashingCon's:- expensive- generally illegal- more complicated fueling systemAgain, I think that the kpm style systems are the solution, as its essentially the best of both worlds. Only cost being an issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollex Member 683 Member For: 10y 6m 7d Gender: Male Location: Australia Posted 22/10/14 11:29 AM Author Share Posted 22/10/14 11:29 AM (edited) The stock tank comes with a decent swirl pot though, unless you are racing the vehicle at what point does a surge tank actually become necessary?A good flog off the lights with 350rwkw will produce less Gs than hard cornering with stock suspension and stock motor, I am just not sold on when you actually need it. Same goes for pump, what does the stock one pump L/hr and at what power level is this exceeded?There are 1000s of nissan GTR skylines from the 1990s with no swirl pot, AWD and 400rwkw who run stock tanks, I have not once heard of a surge tank being required or recommended for them. Imo it sounds like a few companies have had very successful marketing campaigns!Is there any data out there at all? Edited 22/10/14 11:31 AM by rollex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennox Member 2,586 Member For: 11y 9m 18d Gender: Male Location: Perth Posted 22/10/14 11:29 AM Share Posted 22/10/14 11:29 AM Has anyone done any science on the issue and found out at what G forces you do lean out from the stock tank? ?Good question, this is what I want to know. Has this ever even happened on a bf/FG or is it just a theoretical thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demon1300 Member 435 Member For: 12y 10m 6d Gender: Male Posted 22/10/14 11:30 AM Share Posted 22/10/14 11:30 AM It depends on the car. The xr6t's have diff pumps to the f6. Which have you got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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