T5 box (split topic)

[aps]

  WBT56 said:

  aps said:

No its not irrelevant in fact its totally RELEVANT.

Peter

APS

My point was that knowing what failed was not going to make it any less broken, or get it fixed for you. At some point, once you get above sensible torque levels, apparently, you have to just say this componant will not suit this application, and upgrade to a higher specification unit.

Well I think the jury is still out on this verdict, for all the talk that the T5 is not up to the task I have not seen one example of a failed XR6T T5 to date.

I see and talk with xr6t owners daily and not one owner has experienced a problem with the T5 transmission.

I think its really weird to bag the transmission without kmowing what is the problem is, may be its a faulty factory component.

Why dont you start a poll on the T5 reliability issue and lets see what the forum members have to say on this issue?

In any event I would not waste my time or money on a T56 trans when there is a much better option.

Peter

APS

[richdave]

I have split the T5 debate from the compliance thread as cleanly as possible

If you want to continue the Compliance discussion refer to THIS THREAD

Edited 04/02/04 12:48 PM by richdave

[Turbo6man]

OK Peter, you have referred to a "much better option" twice now so let's hear your opinion on what it is please ... Getrag? ZF? And how much hard earned? A T56 transplant is up around $8k so I'm assuming you have something competitive in mind?

[XR6_ED]

What is BTR and FORD specs . A diff and gearbox specialist says between 470 and 500 nm . How is it driven? How is the power delivered etc etc etc...

280kw and 505 nm box has done 160000km nothing wrong with it.....either a good box or a docile driver .... who knows

[WBT56]

  aps said:

..Well I think the jury is still out on this verdict, for all the talk that the T5 is not up to the task I have not seen one example of a failed XR6T T5 to date...

Peter

APS

If you would actually read my posts, I believe you would see that I have not bagged the T5. I actually started my comment with " The T5 is a good transmission" (or similar) in the thread when you first spoke of the 300km/h run. I have merely maintained that in the application some people are talking, with vastly upgraded outputs, some people are going to have long term reliability issues.

The T5Z internals have been in use since AU XR8, they are IDENTICAL inside, so this widens the scope of vehicles to see how fatigue affects the trans LONG TERM. Ever watch a brute ute race? Who would have thought a mere 230fwkw could cause such carnage, under arduous conditions. This is exactly what you spoke about, it depends how you drive.

You PM'd me to ask who I was, and I replied honestly, and you then attempt a slur on me in open forums about who I am. If you or anyone wanted to know, you could have just asked.

I went back through the last four pages, and you were the main one to bring up trans upgrade or reliability questions. Not Me.

[Guest hv8355]

  aps said:

  WBT56 said:

  aps said:

No its not irrelevant in fact its totally RELEVANT.

Peter

APS

My point was that knowing what failed was not going to make it any less broken, or get it fixed for you. At some point, once you get above sensible torque levels, apparently, you have to just say this componant will not suit this application, and upgrade to a higher specification unit.

Well I think the jury is still out on this verdict, for all the talk that the T5 is not up to the task I have not seen one example of a failed XR6T T5 to date.

I see and talk with xr6t owners daily and not one owner has experienced a problem with the T5 transmission.

I think its really weird to bag the transmission without kmowing what is the problem is, may be its a faulty factory component.

Why dont you start a poll on the T5 reliability issue and lets see what the forum members have to say on this issue?

In any event I would not waste my time or money on a T56 trans when there is a much better option. :banghead:

Peter

APS

Bloan, I dont think we are all hell bent on a 6 speed trans upgrade though 6 well spaced ratios would be nice. What we are all considering is a transmission that can cope with much greater engine torque and the T56 can cope with quite high torque.

The only problem with the T56 is that the shift quality is similar to a J3 bedford truck, its not that flash. I agree a strong 5 speed trans with the right ratios at a reasonable price would be a good option for the xr6t. This entire issue needs much more investagation before making any decision on which way to proceed.

PETER

APS

If this is its only problem, why would you not waste time and money on it, (although this (older) post indicates you were/are considering it yourself). especially as there are options available to fix this one problem, as installed in this one (comm) car ?

"I think its really weird to bag the transmission without kmowing what is the problem is" So whats the problem with the T56 shifter ?

Edited 04/02/04 10:02 PM by hv8355

[aps]

  WBT56 said:

  aps said:

..It seems to me that some are under the false impression that the APS car was part of the magazine's major road test, whilst this is partially correct the APS car was being tested for another feature article...

Peter

APS

I too was under the impression that the T had "beaten" the opposition, especially CSV, and the banter that followed about sticking it to Expensive Daewoo leads me to believe that many others had also thought that the T had won this "race". As by your own admission the car did not exactly partake in this event, and was not road legal at the time of testing, perhaps the write up in the magazine will reflect this?

This was not a race, it was a high SPEED test that we, that is APS was invited to attend. What part of the 307 KPH test did you not understand, we were clearly 17 KPH faster than the next fastest car, and if my math is correct 25 kph faster than the fastest Expensive Daewoo tested.

All cars were tested under identical conditions I dont believe that you could have a more level testing venue.

As to where and how a magazine chooses to write a feature report is out of my control, all we can do is present the car for testing and from there its up to the magazine.

Your comments regarding road legality of the car simply demonstrates your lack of understanding of most STATE and FEDERAL requirements in particular ADR rules.

The APS phase III car was emission compliant at the time of testing as was proven by being tested immediately after the high run.

Contrary to your predictions the T5 still lives after all of the severe testing to date. :banghead:

Peter

APS

[Guest hv8355]

  aps said:

  WBT56 said:

  aps said:

. As by your own admission the car did not exactly partake in this event, and was not road legal at the time of testing,

Your comments regarding road legality of the car simply demonstrates your lack of understanding of most STATE and FEDERAL requirements in particular ADR rules.

The rules are quite simple, an increase in mass or engine power/torque of greater than 10% require an engineer's report.

I believe from what I have read, that at the time of testing, no such report was available ?

I think WBT56's understanding of State and Federal laws is quite good.

Edited 04/02/04 10:41 PM by hv8355

[aps]

  hv8355 said:

  aps said:

  WBT56 said:

  aps said:

No its not irrelevant in fact its totally RELEVANT.

Peter

APS

My point was that knowing what failed was not going to make it any less broken, or get it fixed for you. At some point, once you get above sensible torque levels, apparently, you have to just say this componant will not suit this application, and upgrade to a higher specification unit.

Well I think the jury is still out on this verdict, for all the talk that the T5 is not up to the task I have not seen one example of a failed XR6T T5 to date.

I see and talk with xr6t owners daily and not one owner has experienced a problem with the T5 transmission.

I think its really weird to bag the transmission without kmowing what is the problem is, may be its a faulty factory component.

Why dont you start a poll on the T5 reliability issue and lets see what the forum members have to say on this issue?

In any event I would not waste my time or money on a T56 trans when there is a much better option.

Peter

APS

Bloan, I dont think we are all hell bent on a 6 speed trans upgrade though 6 well spaced ratios would be nice. What we are all considering is a transmission that can cope with much greater engine torque and the T56 can cope with quite high torque.

The only problem with the T56 is that the shift quality is similar to a J3 bedford truck, its not that flash. I agree a strong 5 speed trans with the right ratios at a reasonable price would be a good option for the xr6t. This entire issue needs much more investagation before making any decision on which way to proceed.

PETER

APS

If this is its only problem, why would you not waste time and money on it, (although this (older) post indicates you were/are considering it yourself). especially as there are options available to fix this one problem, as installed in this one (comm) car ?

"I think its really weird to bag the transmission without kmowing what is the problem is" So whats the problem with the T56 shifter ?

Well the T56 had the worst shift quality of any 6 speed transmission that I have driven, its simply an awkward trans and does not like quick gear shifting.

No doubt the T56 is a robust trans and with the correct ratios would do a job, I would rather utilise a higher quality 6 speed trans if I was going to the trouble and the expense of a 6 speed conversion.

As we are a performance engineering company we always consider many different aspects of car components and where there is potential consumer demand for a product investigate the issue.

I am not a big wrap for the T56 6 speed and have said so openly on this forum, and we at APS always go the extra yard to explore every possible and affordable option if we choose to develop a product.

If and when APS releases releases a manual trans upgrade I can assure you it will be far superior to the current T56 trans options.

Peter

APS

[aps]

  aps said:

. As by your own admission the car did not exactly partake in this event, and was not road legal at the time of testing,

Your comments regarding road legality of the car simply demonstrates your lack of understanding of most STATE and FEDERAL requirements in  particular ADR rules.

The rules are quite simple, an increase in mass or engine power/torque of greater than 10% require an engineer's report.

I believe from what I have read, that at the time of testing, no such report was available ?

I think WBT56's understanding of State and Federal laws is quite good.

Yes the rules are simple, the engineers evaluation has been completed, however as the APS engineering cars are not registered, a formal engineers report can't be lodged previous to first registration of the vehicle.

Fact is at this time and at the time of the test, the vehicle comes under the juristication of the FEDERAL OFFICE OF ROAD SAFETY AND TRANSPORT and the PHASE III car meets all of their requirements in terms of legality.

Peter

APS