T5 box (split topic)

[Guest hv8355]

Its amazing though how some bag the T5, you would almost think that they had a vested interest in doing so ........I will say no more .......just read between the lines!!!

Peter

APS

Touche, I guess you could also infer a vested interest of the people who defend it ?

Defence or bagging, rules are rules and numbers are numbers.

[bcl]

My T5 has failed. That is a fact, nothing to do with vested interest.

I hoped it would last, but not to be. I did expect it to fail, as I am operating beyond the manufacturers specific torque limit of 447NM, and am not complaining that it has failed.

I'm unsure as to what level above 447NM that an engineer would certify.

Brian

[aps]

Its amazing though how some bag the T5, you would almost think that they had a vested interest in doing so ........I will say no more .......just read between the lines!!!

Peter

APS

Touche, I guess you could also infer a vested interest of the people who defend it ?

Defence or bagging, rules are rules and numbers are numbers.

TOUCHE 'TWO ! However we are not in the business of selling T5 transmissions therefore the situations are not the same, as the people PUSHING the T56 path ARE selling transmissions.

We have no VESTED interest in this issue other than pointing out to forum members that the xr6t T5 transmission is quite reliable at sensible TORQUE levels.

We are aware that older model T5 transmissions used in different applications have had some issues. These should not be confused with the current xr6t T5 variant which has been improved to suit the T.

Peter

APS

[bcl]

I'm not selling anything, I just want my gearbox fixed.

The ONLY solution offered NOW is the T56.

What then is a "sensible torque level" for a T5 as used in the Ford XR6T, in the opinion of APS?

I'm sure many people would like to know.

Brian

[Guest hv8355]

Its amazing though how some bag the T5, you would almost think that they had a vested interest in doing so ........I will say no more .......just read between the lines!!!

Peter

APS

Touche, I guess you could also infer a vested interest of the people who defend it ?

Defence or bagging, rules are rules and numbers are numbers.

TOUCHE 'TWO ! However we are not in the business of selling T5 transmissions therefore the situations are not the same, as the people PUSHING the T56 path ARE selling transmissions.

We have no VESTED interest in this issue other than pointing out to forum members that the xr6t T5 transmission is quite reliable at sensible TORQUE levels.

We are aware that older model T5 transmissions used in different applications have had some issues. These should not be confused with the current xr6t T5 variant which has been improved to suit the T.

Peter

APS

I am aware that you do not sell T5's, and that T5Z is uprated over earlier T5's. However I believe your kits (awesome in their own right by the way - on my side this is a trans discussion in no way detracting from your product) are more attractive if the T5 is PUSHED as being ok at sensible torque levels, hense the vested interest comment. I am interested in how such a massive power increase is achieved without a proporsional torque increase at the same rpm.

[aps]

I'm not selling anything, I just want my gearbox fixed.

The ONLY solution offered NOW is the T56.

What then is a "sensible torque level" for a T5 as used in the Ford XR6T, in the opinion of APS?

I'm sure many people would like to know.

Brian

Brian, I would suggest that after talking with many xr6t owners that the 5 speed trans is quite reliable.

If you have killed your trans could you explain what has failed (that's if you know) as you must have stripped down the trans to inspect the components to see what has failed.

Its just not acceptable to say the that the T5 trans is not up to the task without even diagnosing what if any parts have failed. I have no doubt that the application/usage of the car has as much to do with gearbox component failure as the increase of torque does.

Please provide some analytical evidence of your specific problem before generalising on this issue.

Peter

APS

[bcl]

Peter,

My gearbox will be pulled apart within the next 2 weeks, and I will report what has failed.

You have still avoided answering the question as to what you consider a "sensible torque level" for a T5 as used in the Ford XR6T, in the opinion of APS?

Brian

[aps]

I am aware that you do not sell T5's, and that T5Z is uprated over earlier T5's. However I believe your kits (awesome in their own right by the way - on my side this is a trans discussion in no way detracting from your product) are more attractive if the T5 is PUSHED as being ok at sensible torque levels, hense the vested interest comment. I am interested in how such a massive power increase is achieved without a proporsional torque increase at the same rpm.

Thanks for your kind words on APS products, its greatly appreciated. We have tested the T5 trans in the APS engineering vehicle for over a year now so my opinion is based on our experience. Heres a number of points to consider.

1) Engine torque is proportional to absolute manifold pressure and we control the turbo pressure to generate the desired torque level/curve that's intended for the PHASE III application.

2) We achieve high power levels with minimal turbo pressure/torque by substantial improvements in system MASS flow.

Bottom line we taylor the torque curve around the entire drive train not just the transmission.

I noticed that you joined the forum on the 2nd of Feb 04 and that all of your posts are related to this thread, are you by any chance involved in the drive train business and what is it that you do for a living.

I dont mean this question to be offensive in any way, I am simply interested in your knowledge of this subject.

peter

APS

[aps]

Peter,

My gearbox will be pulled apart within the next 2 weeks, and I will report what has failed.

You have still avoided answering the question as to what you consider a "sensible torque level" for a T5 as used in the Ford XR6T, in the opinion of APS?

Brian

Brian, I find it astonishing that you have not pulled down the trans to inspect and diagnosed the failure. Who can say for sure that its not a simple manufacturing defect of a single component ?

As for your question relating to torque limits, there is no single answer. As it always depends on application and usage.

Its really very simple. We would not suggest one goes drag racing on slicks with 400Kw of power and a T5 trans.

On the other hand we would have no concern about using the vehicle as a road car on street tyres when driven with some degree of mechanical sympathy.

Bottom line is you can break any drive train component if you try hard enough.

Peter

APS

[Guest hv8355]

I am aware that you do not sell T5's, and that T5Z is uprated over earlier T5's. However I believe your kits (awesome in their own right by the way - on my side this is a trans discussion in no way detracting from your product) are more attractive if the T5 is PUSHED as being ok at sensible torque levels, hense the vested interest comment. I am interested in how such a massive power increase is achieved without a proporsional torque increase at the same rpm.

Thanks for your kind words on APS products, its greatly appreciated. We have tested the T5 trans in the APS engineering vehicle for over a year now so my opinion is based on our experience. Heres a number of points to consider.

1) Engine torque is proportional to absolute manifold pressure and we control the turbo pressure to generate the desired torque level/curve that's intended for the PHASE III application.

2) We achieve high power levels with minimal turbo pressure/torque by substantial improvements in system MASS flow.

Bottom line we taylor the torque curve around the entire drive train not just the transmission.

I noticed that you joined the forum on the 2nd of Feb 04 and that all of your posts are related to this thread, are you by any chance involved in the drive train business and what is it that you do for a living.

I dont mean this question to be offensive in any way, I am simply interested in your knowledge of this subject.

peter

APS

Credit where credit is due.

As torque is proportional to power, there is no minimal torque to obtain a given power reading at a given rpm, only one level of torque will give that one level of power at that rpm. I understand that you have achieved excellent power levels with low levels of boost, and that is what is impressive.

No offence taken, I'm a Mech Engineer, dabbling in Automotive, hard to reveal which OEM as I'm sure you'd appreciate. Yeah, a bit cheeky joining and then firing away on the one topic but I've visited regularly for months and HAD to get more involved in these interesting discussions.

I am also interested in what you consider sensible torque levels for this drivetrain. You can break or nurse anything but people are interested in your opinion on suitable components to use behind your kits, Ford have validated to a certain torque and released the T5Z, I'm not implying that aftermarket tuners would validate and/or release as per OEM's but some level of confidence is clearly in everyones best interest, that's why I am intrigued as to the engineer's report - how will he/she justify it ?.