Timing Chain Guide Broken

[ratter]

your pics were not clear enough to know that the timing was correct, but we have seen many cars now with incorrect valve timing, the first couple had broken guides so I assumed it was the broken piece of guide that caused it to jump, we have now seen more cars that the guide has remained intact and the timing was incorrect

[barnz]

Well I went off where inlet and exhaust rocked in relation to tdc rather than the sprocket marks alone. which I tried to represent with the photos of balancer. Is that not the best way to check with the timing cover still on?

Also they did rock there did not appear to be any overlap. Im not an expert was just trying to save on labor coz not rich and diagnose it, dont really feel comfortable resetting it myself if need be. Already about to spend a few thousand on it in maintenance and sone panel repair.

I do agree that it's more likely the plastic would be crushed rather than levering the chain into a new position. Even though that's not actually what you said lol...

Edited 14/09/14 08:40 AM by barnz

[ratter]

what did I say?

[barnz]

Bout the guide breaking, I struggle to see why the little bit of plastic would fall off for no reason and would think it would just get pulverised anyway. So I can see what your saying about the chain breaking the guide.

But I appear to have a broken guide and ok timing. So how does the chain break the guide? Limiter bash? High revs?

[timwds]

My BFII guide broke in the same place and timing was still correct.

[ratter]

any one else want to make a suggestion then?

[barnz]

Not even sure what you mean ratter? Clearly what timwds and I have said supports your theory about the chain breaking the guide. All I have asked is how you think that happens and that's your response?

I also asked if the way I checked the timing was correct and you've brushed that as well? Nobody is asking you to divulge your darkest secrets...not all of us just throw money at people to fix things either.

I have definitely limiter bashed my car once or twice so was thinking maybe its my fault, or is there some other fault that can cause it?

Cmon man ive even given you raps for being probably the most helpful tuna on the forums, whats with the cryptic attitude?

[ratter]

cryptic attitude?

I've clearly stated what I believed many times over and people want to argue with me.

I did not design this engine, I'm the guy that is diagnosing fixing when others have failed.

Our shop has done over 20 cars now that have jumped teeth, as I said the early ones had broken guides so I assumed the guide piece caused it to jump.

We have now seen many that have jumped teeth and the guide is ok so I re-assed my thoughts, and believe it is from hard acceleration in lower the lower gears followed by shutting the throttle hard.

I have a car in the shop at the moment that bent all the exhaust valves, when I quizzed the owner about the scenario, it was exactly what he had done.

I stated that the pic does not show things good enough to see if the timing is correct, I'm also not going to tell somebody how to fix their car unless I know 100% what is wrong, if they go and do what I say and it was not right rectification then it does not look good.

Not all of us have money to throw at people to fix it?? I've got a business to run, I earn my money from actually working on cars, not a consulting business, I try to help where I can, I don't have people throwing money at me for the help I give do I?

If somebody else has an opinion on what causes it, feel free to speak up, that is all.

[barnz]

Well sorry I had missed where you said it was from high revs and snapping the throttle as that's exactly the opinion I was after.

Never once argued with you, in fact I agreed from the out set. All I was asking was why it jumps as that's obviously at the core of this common problem, I had already agreed that the jumping smashes the guide. Just mine hasn't jumped a tooth...yet but quite obviously can even if the guide is fixed. I have also hit the hard cut once or twice which is the equivalent of high revs and snapping the throttle. So there you go your most likely spot on.

So remind me at what point I challenged your knowledge and disputed what you were saying. I'm well aware of how much more you know about these cars than I do hence I asked for your opinion?

So yeah I found "anybody else want to make a suggestion" pretty bloody cryptic when all you had said to me is that the guide breaks the chain and I had agreed and asked how.

As for you making a living from this I understand that and I thought it was a pretty basic question, is looking at what the valves do at tdc a pretty good indication? Its a yes or no answer really.

The rest of us bust a nut to support our families and mortgages as well mate. Pretty sure I wasnt trying to get anything for free...

I might also add that I never asked you how to fix my car, did all my own research, checked the workshop manuals and went on my way to investigate myself and at no point asked anybody to hold my hand.

Edited 15/09/14 06:29 AM by barnz

[timwds]

Chill out guys, based on our combined experiences it sounds like chains can jump teeth regardless of whether the guide is broken. There are tons of cars out there with broken guides that don't even know it, I didn't know until I pulled mine apart of other reasons.

IMO, it comes down to bad design. The end of the guide isn't supported very well and the retaining clip is tiny. Metal vs plastic vs time, metal is going to win... simple.

Edited 15/09/14 06:37 AM by timwds