Bf Injectors With Good Spray Pattern For 300-350Rwkw

[rollex]

here is the scan from kpm

and the one from bruce

I didn't realise it at the time but that big peak in AFR is near peak torque, when I got the dyno sheet it looked as if that was while boost was building and the transition from O2 closed loop to open loop. Only after I worked out the rpm did it look wrong.

Edited 10/02/15 05:28 AM by rollex

[JETURBO]

Did u watch dave run up your car ?

How much did he heat soak it before doing a complete run ?

The start AFR plot is fine for the way daves has run it its falling from lambda 1 to target and its not un common from bruce to tune 12.0 and some

I have a big feeling the tune that WAS in the car from the sheet bruce gave you is NOT the tune that has been run on KPM's run ( this is something places will do not all but some )

You have bigger issues with what the kpm sheet suggests

Than just AFR but again that's another story

I would go see bruce with the kpm sheet asap

Next up dyno's are tools and not evenly calibrated

[Bizkets is Drunk?]

afr on ya kpm one is as high as mine from morpowa. A bit higher then then 11.8 or 0.8

[rollex]

Did u watch dave run up your car ?

How much did he heat soak it before doing a complete run ?

The start AFR plot is fine for the way daves has run it its falling from lambda 1 to target and its not un common from bruce to tune 12.0 and some

I have a big feeling the tune that WAS in the car from the sheet bruce gave you is NOT the tune that has been run on KPM's run ( this is something places will do not all but some )

You have bigger issues with what the kpm sheet suggests

Than just AFR but again that's another story

I would go see bruce with the kpm sheet asap

Next up dyno's are tools and not evenly calibrated

I wasn't there when they did the run as they were doing other work to the car I left it there for 2 days.

I dont have an SCT so they couldn't edit the tune easily. Are you implying they would change the tune to make it look worse? It is a guy I know fairly well from high school and they already knew I wanted to spend money so I highly doubt they would do something that dishonest, not to mention they have nothing to gain from it.

Bruce said he tuned it to 12:1 and no higher, regardless it is pinging (mildly) across the entire range now.

What are the bigger issues you are talking about?

[JETURBO]

No iam NOT saying KPM changed the tune at all but bruces tune ( original ) looks very good

The KPM run looks average at best

It looks like the KR is big and cutting in harshly and is typical of a big heat soaked run or incorrect timing

Heat soaking a car past "normal" for the purposes of a "funky" looking graph is an age old trick ( not suggesting KPM did this butttt you can work out the rest )

Its also common for the "print out" sheet to be the best,cleanest run with knock sensors off still due to the tuning process, once switched back on KR will come in sooner than the off sensor run, ( this is what the un steady shakes are on the KPM run or genuine Knock condition ) sensor sensitivity can and needs to be calibrated correctly

Due to the temps on the sheets being simular it should of replicate simular ( but again dyno's are tools )

I have a feeling and only a mild feeling that if your car is still in the same "mechanical" condition as when it was tuned that if you went to another workshop and got another power run it would be "closer" to bruces run VS KPM's run as long as the opperator was using the same start speeds as bruces run and not flogging the crap out of it before the run was conducted ( this can make a huge effect on how the graph plots and if KR cuts in and how much it may cut in )

One of the things we used to do was print the final run that had knock sensors on and after the third consecutive pull to show what it had as a "worst case" senario ...... that's why we never made "huge numbers" but solid tunes that then went on to make bigger numbers on dyno days

This then puts a smile on the customers face every time !!

Edited 11/02/15 12:11 AM by Butt Plug

[BenDoCo]

Buy another dyno would ya

farken

-----------

Good explanation that. Even I understood (most of) it.

Cheers

[rollex]

Bruce tuned the car in cool weather, KPM ran the car up on a hot day, it was at least 30c that day so I was surprised seeing the temp sensors reading that low.

The suggested the tune was quite aggressive timing and fuel wise and this would explain knock retard kicking in yet it still pinging. Being a hot day probably doesn't help either (intercooler would be hot just from the car sitting in the sun not running)

Shouldn't heat soak make the car run richer? Don't these ECUs run intake temperature fuel trims etc? Why would it run leaner?

[JETURBO]

Well the temps say same/same but yeh its manually input, and I can only go off that

Bruce does something different to other places when it comes to boost selection but I wont go into that, this is the thing that's triggered the leaner situation on a hotter IAT ( potentially )

As you may know just because the ambient temp is X does not mean IAT is X+X so as I said I "feel" the KPM runs would have greater IAT's than bruces run and how KPM got to X temp is only a guess but a pretty good guess

If your IAT's were same same on each run your AFR's would be identical and power figure might differ but the plot would be very similar

This does not nessacearly mean they have done the wrong thing ( if the cars capiable of producing that heat should it be allowed for ??? ) but might be in their interest to of had it this hot

Your in a tuff situation as I don't believe bruce has done anything wrong by you yet "politically " neither has KPM

this is where we would of had you up and given you a honest outlook on whats going on but those days have past , if you feel more comfortable at KPM go for it as at the end of the day you need to be happy

But if your not adding more hardware dont expect a better result in all honesty as id say your car made what it made and that's where bruce would of left it, if anything bruce might push a touch more than most when tuning

[Bizkets is Drunk?]

Tune my car?

[rollex]

I'm not expecting more power, I went to them to make sure it won't grenade in a year. Eg I want the boost/fuel/ignition to trim and avoid detonation if I decide to hold my foot on the brake an accelerator on a 30c day. This will require more fuel, less ignition, less boost and definitely less power however I want it to be dynamic so when I'm driving it on a 10c night it will make the power it is capable of.

So could you explain the boost selection and why this might result in a leaner result on a hotter day? End of the day I just want the tune to be robust and never detonate.

Edited 11/02/15 01:39 AM by rollex