Cams In The 5.0L

[joe@cms]

the gost cams that was mentioned is only a software tweak that some of the mustang tuners are doing & mainly for manualy operated cars at that, due to the bucking efect that you would normaly experiance when putting big cams in with a stock convertor.

IMO the other thing is we do not have the ability to perform this tweak with what we as tuners have avaiable through SCT..... as what we have to what we can have are two different things. So in saying that if we as tuners had these extra tables in the ''variable cam timing'' section avalable, then we can do it to our own 5.0ltrs.

speed dencity is the devils work that's why some tuners dont want to get involved, cams do sound great they really dont make a lot of power but do you realy care ??

[MattyP]

I was just thinking if you have an absolutely bonkers gt, who really cares what it sounds like at idle, as long as it goes like the clappers

Lumpy cams for me just equal a dog to drive around

If you want that you'd be better off going a ve imo haha

[supercharged88]

Hi,

I haven't ever tried to tune anything with SCT or VCM, but have experience with standalone ECU'S.

There is a method that can be employed to achieve a lumpy type idle without camshafts or the ECU/SOFTWARE not having Cyclic Idle Control.

I have used it years ago on ECU's with DBW control but no Cyclic Idle control to give the effect of big cams/ ghost cams.

It lays within the idle speed control (DBW) and idle ignition timing values.

It is a matter of inducing hunt in the idle by using a low timing value at idle and a higher timing value at idle at the closest cell to the idle timing site.

With tuning the PID's of the DBW and using the timing value methods you can create your own ghost cam effect.

The trade off however with speed density is the drop in manifold vacuum at the lower timing value and the point that the idle speed drops, creates a rich idle mixture.

This can be minimised with time needed to fine tune this setup.

However it also tends to replicate the high hydro carbon, burn your eyes out idle type effect of big overlap camshafts. EG: 106 deg lobe sep and 300 @ 0.050 if not setup properly.

I notice a lot of Commodores at idle seem to have been tuned with this manner also.

Workshops fit camshafts and the engine doesn't produce the lumpy idle the owner is seeking.

The tuner then employs similar tactics I have mentioned above to produce a more lumpy idle.

The give away to this is the fast hunting idle lope, instead of the consistant idle lope.

I know of a workshop that does exactly this after I mentioned to him how I used to do it in the earlier days.

It still sounds ok, but not as good as a true big duration, tight lobe separation camshaft, which by the way goes against the grain of true boosted engine camshafts.

Tight lobe separation and big duration sounds good, but you have heaps of valve overlap, you end up pushing boost out the exhaust.

Good ECU's coupled with good tuners tame camshafts down, compared to an engine with the same grind camshaft and carby, the EFI engine will always idle smoother and sound tamer.

Sorry guys just a bit of dribble I thought I would pass on.

Regards

Dave.

Edited 01/05/14 08:00 PM by supercharged88

[ratter]

^WHS

I've had a few commodores with big cams that had been tuned elsewhere, well the owners thought they had big cams, we've managed in some cases to get the cars idling at possibly 250 rpm lower, still with a little lump that no tuning could get rid of, but with out the eye burning exhaust fumes and nicer manners

[KPM Motorsport]

KPM spent countless develoment time with cam grinds and tuning for the 5.0 Coyote.

The end results was unless the camshaft were able to be manufactured for a minimal cost , reults vs cost was impractical.

The 5.0 engine has 4 camshafts which makes the component cost expensive. Fitmant is a 2 day job. Then add tuning time.

We have talked many customers out of camshaft upgrades. The 5.0 Coyote is better served with alternative upgrades elswhere.

[xrt]

KPM, would you care to give a rough estimate of what sort of price your talking about here. I'm a coyote owner that isnt really interested in huge gains from cams purely just a little bit of sound and I would be prepared to pay a decent figure for it. I've noticed a video on youtube of the fg street fighter filmed at a service station and it seemed to have a nice idle. Feel free to PM me. Im just interested to know either way.

KPM spent countless develoment time with cam grinds and tuning for the 5.0 Coyote.

The end results was unless the camshaft were able to be manufactured for a minimal cost , reults vs cost was impractical.

The 5.0 engine has 4 camshafts which makes the component cost expensive. Fitmant is a 2 day job. Then add tuning time.

We have talked many customers out of camshaft upgrades. The 5.0 Coyote is better served with alternative upgrades elswhere.

[Z2TT]

Isn't there Camshafts from USA for their 5.0L's that are made for the same engine that can fit?

KPM I'm wondering if you say the results were not worth it compared to the cost, why is there a thread on Ford Forums where you intended to have these available to customers and also mentioned the first results are amazing and that you were overwhelmed with the response and extra power of the cam upgrade in this thread :

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11370602

From what I get it the supplier who was going to provide you with the materials never ended up supplying it to you to make the camshafts?

It would be great to make the 5.0L even more of a great motor than what it is with camshaft upgrade.

Edited 14/05/14 05:45 PM by Z2TT

[boosted_rhino*]

snap z2tt is right. so cams are overwhelming in performance but since your not going ahead kpm

We have talked many customers out of camshaft upgrades. The 5.0 Coyote is better served with alternative upgrades elswhere.

so you get customers to spend that on other developments ..... if that's the case boys just need to pick a grind from lunati or comp cams they have specifically for superhcarged coyote applications and give it a go

[KPM Motorsport]

snap z2tt is right. so cams are overwhelming in performance but since your not going ahead kpm

so you get customers to spend that on other developments ..... if that's the case boys just need to pick a grind from lunati or comp cams they have specifically for superhcarged coyote applications and give it a go

We have also tested grinds offered and again, no real gains other than the cammy idle note.Again price vs results arent impressive. If customers understand this clearly and are still willing to ask for cams , we would be happy to supply fit and tune.

Edited 16/06/14 11:39 PM by KPM Motorsport

[ratter]

so many people do not realise there are pro's and con's with cams, once explained, most do not want to live with some of the con's