Adr Compliance Issues

[stang]

I agree good to hear from someone with out any bias towards modding with te facts to back them up. Toyman not being lazy but it has been mentioned on this forum if you do a mod that increases your power by 10% u require an engineers certificate or it is illegal would you know if so and the particular ADR that states or whatever rule it is.

regards

Stang

P.s hope u dont sit under that rock by yourself grab a girl mate more fun.

[aps]

  thetoyman75 said:

Hang on just a second here people!

Unless the Engineering requirements changed overnight there is some real

misinformation here. I can only speak for NSW regulations so sorry to the

interstaters but Engineering concerns are something I deal with on a

weekly basis.

Firstly there is a broad suggestion here that if you have the APS kit all

is sweet and dandy. Just to clarify something here. Whilst when tuned

correctly I'm sure it can all be sweet and dandy, but UNLESS you have your

SPECIFIC mods and your SPECIFIC vehicle engineered you're just as defectable

as everyone else.

Any performance changes to your car can be used as a defectable offence by

the police/RTA unless you have your car engineered. This however is a

relatively easy thing to do and in the scheme of things is quite

inexpensive.

An engineers certificate can ONLY be provided by an approved RTA

signatory. There is a worksheet available from the RTA that lists them. It

is Vehicle Standards Information Sheet no.15. You can also download the

PDF here:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/heavyvehicles/do...s/vsi/vsi15.pdf

Expect it cost anywhere from $500 and up for the paperwork, but hey what

did the car cost you ??

There are 4 basic area's of concern with the XR6T upgrade packages in

terms of engineering. (Any car for that matter)

Emissions

Exhaust

Intake

BOV

There are plenty of finer points but the basic requirements aren't that

hard to meet.

Firstly, Emissions - In NSW the EPA encourages tuners and vehicle

owners to have their cars meet the emission requirements. As such the

rolling road emissions test (which is all your engineer requires) is FREE

as part of any blue slip or engineering certificate requirement. All you

need to do is book a time at the Penrith testing centre (Only open Mondays

and Tuesdays). They are good guys and don't black mark you if fail. They

are there to help. If your car has been tuned to suit then just about any

quality ECU or Piggyback can pass. By the same token your chances are only

as good as your tuner and it can take an attempt or two to pass. Remember

no Tuning workshop in existence has the same testing gear as the RTA. They

don't just test what comes out the pipe. They suck ALL the air out of the

room !

Exhaust - There are some basic requirements - keep it under the

legal noise limit, it MUST have a catalytic converter. Of course keep your

ground

clearance requirements in mind. Rule of thumb 100mm ground clearance is a

must.

Intake - Intake mods have some noise limitations as well but

basically, Pod filters are frowned on so the best way to go is with a

panel filter in the factory airbox. Speak to your engineer for the finer

points

BOV - You can change your Blow off Valve BUT it MUST be a plumb back

or recirculating type.

There are many areas that can be considered for engineering. Wheels, tyres

, suspension etc all needs to be engineered as well, but this thread was

about performance enhancing parts and tuning so I am sticking to that. If

you really want to get into it, the RTA can provide the exact standards a

2003/2004 car has to meet. I don't have those worksheets with me right

now.

Sorry its such a long post but I lurk around here a lot and generally keep

to myself. My guys (I am president of a modified car club) get misinformed

about stuff all the time and it's just a pet hate of mine. Too many people

are scared to modify their cars because they have been told the wrong

thing and that's not good for any of us.

Brian, I know your not concerned about it but, to the best of my knowledge,

if given an emissions tune there is no reason your car cannot be

engineered. There is certainly nothing that makes the APS kit anymore

engineerable than anyone else's (Sorry Peter)

Thanks for listening and I hope that helps everyone. I'm back off under

the rock I crawled out from under lol

thetoyman75, I have been laughing for a while now over your post, most of what you have stated is what we at APS have stated for months, in any event thanks for your contribution on the topic. By the way great 2nd post.

It's great to know that there are others who consider the issue of street legality important.

There is more than one state in Australia :lol: and much of whay you stated on the emission testing procedure does not exist in other states, (certainly not Victoria) and I will clarify what is required for other states as well.

Regards

Peter

APS

Edited 06/05/04 09:11 AM by aps

[thetoyman75]

Stang,

The RTA website has most of the vehicle information sheets available online. These sheets form the guidelines that your engineer will use. (He will have them in a blue folder)

For some reason they are bloody hard to find on the website (Probably because they don't want to encourage us) but anyway here is the link:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/heavyvehicles/do...si/vsi_dl1.html

Vehicle standards information sheet No.6 is the one you are refering to. It has the basic outline for what is and isn't ok.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/heavyvehicles/do...s/vsi/vsi06.pdf

Here is the paragraph that relates to your question:

"To what extent can I modify my vehicle?

Engine modification

Original engine modified

Modifications to the original engine are permitted provided the following conditions are met:

. normal engine reconditioning within manufacturer’s limits is permitted;

. modifications must not affect compliance with any emission or noise related ADRs;

. all emission control equipment must be retained and functional;

. if the modifications result in a substantial increase in power, then the adequacy of other

components to carry the increased power (brake performance, vehicle controllability and

suspension systems etc.) as well as the vehicle’s continued compliance with the applicable ADRs

must be considered. "

As you can see there is no documented % rule for increased performance from the factory engine. All the guidelines are open to interpretation which can be a good or a bad thing. Great when you have an understanding engineer, not so great when you have a police office on a mission.

The best advice I could give you would be this, If its not fitted by the factory, get it engineer approved. That way when you get pulled over you can simply produce your engineers report and all should be fine.

Peter,

I know the rules in other states can vary allot to those in NSW, some states are easier, some harder. I can only comment on what applies here in NSW as its all I am familiar with. Once again, sorry to the interstaters

Each State does have an RTA equivilent though so just contact them and they should be able to provide you with the relevant requirements. We are spoilt here in NSW in regards to the EPA testing.

Once again I hope that helps, I am not an Engineer so please check with an approved signatory for confirmation of anything that's important to you. Just keep in mind that some are more friendly than others so be prepaired to contact a few

[aps]

Thetoyman75, I’ll start this response with several points of fact and clarification, though I believe that we are both on the same side – and that is to make it as easy as possible for an XR6T owner to enjoy the thrill of driving a true high performance vehicle legally on our roads.

1. Both on our site and on many posts on this very forum, APS has always made it clear that an engineers report was required for legality in NSW, VIC and SA – soon to be QLD also. The point is APS provides the expensively obtained ADR 79/00 emissions test data free of charge to the engineer in question.

2. There are no free access Australian standard exhaust emissions testing facilities inside or outside of NSW. One full ADR79/00 exhaust emissions test will cost a minimum of $4000 per test in a commercial laboratory. Proving compliance can easily take 4 – 5 tests, depending upon the degree of modification involved.

3. NSW only - The free test offered by the RTA at Penrith and Botany only (thetoyman75, these are Not EPA test facilities) in NSW only is not an ADR 79/00 compliance test. It is an American based, standard vehicle verification test (IM240) and as such should not be used as a part of an engineer’s report. However, we have heard recently that the RTA in NSW is actually breaking its own (and EPA NSW) regulations by accepting “test” results from the IM240 procedure as evidence of ADR 79/00 compliance. Now this is both erroneous from both an engineering and regulatory perspective.

The situation in NSW is unique to NSW and interesting, though I suspect only a temporary measure since there is no publicly accessible facility in NSW to conduct ADR 79/00 testing. ADR 79/00 is not a simple 5 minute hot run test like IM240. IM240 was designed to briefly run a standard vehicle and if the exhaust gas parameters were within a ballpark figure specified by the manufacturer, then there is a good chance that the emissions control system is functioning properly. That assumption though goes out the window when the vehicle specification is altered from standard through engine modifications.

What is also interesting is that by having the RTA relax its own requirements, it suggests that the RTA’s powers are greater than the EPA in NSW – definitely not the case in VIC. I doubt that this is reflected in legislation, though it’s a bureaucratic bun fight that I’ll gladly stay out of!

All that the performance enthusiast can do is to abide by the rules and regulations of the state where the vehicle is registered - and I think that what NSW has done is terrific. They have essentially overridden the EPA and relaxed the requirements regarding emissions testing for an engineer’s report. Of course, you still need to pass their IM240 test

Unfortunately, those who live in states other than NSW still have to prove continued compliance with ADR 79/00. To do so without APS test data, it’s thousands of dollars for the ADR 79/00 test and engineer’s report if they wish to satisfy the relevant authorities and drive a legal vehicle – to avoid the pitfalls and personal exposure of driving an illegal vehicle.

Regardless, for a NSW registered car with an APS system, the full ADR 79/00 exhaust emissions test results are provided free of charge to the engineer writing the report, so there is no need whatsoever to go through the inconvenience of have your car tested at either Penrith or Botany.

Peter

APS

Edited 07/05/04 01:46 AM by aps

[Dr Z]

Just a gentle reminder that this thread is now beginning to discuss the same issues and cover the same ground as our Legality Thread HERE.

For those who are interested in the legality and insurance issues, I highly recommend you check this thread out. Amongst some of the banter, you will find some useful facts, and particularly on page 4 of the thread you will find legality information and links for NSW, which is the same ground being covered here again. In addition, on page 4 you will find factual information on the insurance issue.

Not that I mind legality and insurance issues being discussed more often... ...though it is helpful for our community's benefit to cross-reference our earlier contributions.

Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.

[aps]

  thetoyman75 said:

Brian, I know your not concerned about it but, to the best of my knowledge,

if given an emissions tune there is no reason your car cannot be

engineered. There is certainly nothing that makes the APS kit anymore

engineerable than anyone else's (Sorry Peter)

It would be interesting to see if Brian's car will meet this easy emissions test as well as the exhaust system's 90 db noise test required as part of the engineer's report.

Good luck with it Brian and let us know how you get on. There are many of us who would like to see you in a street legal car - and for you to be able to avoid all of the grief with EPA, RTA and car insurance

Peter

APS

Edited 07/05/04 07:46 AM by aps

[WBT56]

  aps said:

...The point is APS provides the expensively obtained ADR 79/00 emissions test data free of charge to the engineer in question....

Peter

APS

A couple of points to ponder Peter. 1) If factory variations in engines can give some variability in the outputs achievable with a certain upgrade, (as you have stated elsewhere), then why can't these same variables risk a variation in conformance with the stated ADR's? 2) For the testing to be acceptable, would the test have to be conducted on a vehicle AS TUNED, ie the retuning capabilities of the unichip sealed, and then all "certified" kits tuned to exactly the same parameters? Where does this leave a previously engineered car running, for example, the much spoken of C&V "higher state of tune"? 3) If you are pulled over for a random emission check, is the ADR certification you supply an absolute guarantee that you will be sent on your way, or might you be forced to have your vehicle checked regardless? If so, what are the chances of it failing, and what happens if it does? Ben.

[teebone]

  WBT56 said:

  aps said:

...The point is APS provides the expensively obtained ADR 79/00 emissions test data free of charge to the engineer in question....

Peter

APS

A couple of points to ponder Peter. 1) If factory variations in engines can give some variability in the outputs achievable with a certain upgrade, (as you have stated elsewhere), then why can't these same variables risk a variation in conformance with the stated ADR's? 2) For the testing to be acceptable, would the test have to be conducted on a vehicle AS TUNED, ie the retuning capabilities of the unichip sealed, and then all "certified" kits tuned to exactly the same parameters? Where does this leave a previously engineered car running, for example, the much spoken of C&V "higher state of tune"? 3) If you are pulled over for a random emission check, is the ADR certification you supply an absolute guarantee that you will be sent on your way, or might you be forced to have your vehicle checked regardless? If so, what are the chances of it failing, and what happens if it does? Ben.

WBT56

You just saved me 20 mins typing as I have also been pondering on this very question, particularly as each APS chip is individually tuned to the vehicle

[TURBO4LT]

WBT56

Whilst on the topic of compliance is it required with the T56 upgrade as Im looking to go that way soon and if needed I will wait till then to have the enginners report done?

Cheers Frank

[aps]

  WBT56 said:

  aps said:

...The point is APS provides the expensively obtained ADR 79/00 emissions test data free of charge to the engineer in question....

Peter

APS

A couple of points to ponder Peter. 1) If factory variations in engines can give some variability in the outputs achievable with a certain upgrade, (as you have stated elsewhere), then why can't these same variables risk a variation in conformance with the stated ADR's? 2) For the testing to be acceptable, would the test have to be conducted on a vehicle AS TUNED, ie the retuning capabilities of the unichip sealed, and then all "certified" kits tuned to exactly the same parameters? Where does this leave a previously engineered car running, for example, the much spoken of C&V "higher state of tune"? 3) If you are pulled over for a random emission check, is the ADR certification you supply an absolute guarantee that you will be sent on your way, or might you be forced to have your vehicle checked regardless? If so, what are the chances of it failing, and what happens if it does? Ben.

Ben, It would appear that you are quite unfamiliar with the engine emissions verification testing process in Australia ( this is totally understandable as there are no emission laboratories in Queensland), obviously there is a lot involved, so please excuse my necessarily brief answers.

1) "Variation in conformance"

Obviously there can be a variation in engine emissions. That is exactly why simply meeting the ADR 79/00 emission standards number is not good enough. You have to be able to demonstrate an error percentage below the pass numbers.

In actual fact due the high performance of the APS cat converter, APS is not just that percentage below ADR 79/00, but actually below the error percentage of ADR 79/01. IE that the next emission standard to be introduced in JAN Ist 2006.

2) " As tuned"

All APS XR6T PHASED SYSTEMS are precalibrated by APS. In the emissions part of the computer map, no retuning of the Unichip computer is necessary EVER, all of the custom tuning that APS and it's dealers perform is well outside the area that could impact on engine emission numbers. Not even C and V's XR6T (10 second car) has had tuning performed in the emissions relevant area, and therefore would easily pass the ADR 79/00 emission test.

3) As stated in ( 2) the Cand V car would easily pass the ADR 79/00 emission standard as will any APS XR6T phased performance car. This is not heresay as we have actually proven ADR 79/00 emission compliance on three seperate occaisions and I am 100% confident that every APS system will pass with the same degree of success as the original unmodified XR6T Ford car.

Hope this clarifies the issue for you, thanks for your interest in our emission testing program. :lol:

Peter

APS