How Much Power Do You Want

[Guest Big Mick]

  BLKXRT said:

....throw in a TKO 5 speed, hd clutch and 4.1 at the rear

I believe the TKO's won't fit in the twin skin tunnel. Some panel beating is required, only if you don't mind possibly damaging the air bag controller which sits just above it.

I'm told the T56 is the only real (but expensive) option.

[aps]

  LOK11 said:

Any, in

  aps said:

Hi BRIAN ,Well that's my opinion and we are all entitled to that. If strong low to mid range torque is required I would prefer to stay with the stock ford xr6t inlet manifold, or if chasing more torque (and we have plenty down low now) I would design the manifold for that purpose.My point is that there is little benefit if any benefit ( at around the 350 Kw level ) in changing the inlet manifold and I stand by my previous comments, the APS PHASE III system utilises the stock inlet manifold and the power/torque curves are awesome.The system might make the power you claim with the stock exhaust though with very high exhaust back pressure and I have been around turbo charged engines long enough to know the end result of this very high back pressure and the effect on engine components and engine life.In any event if owners are prepared to take the risk and run high B/P at high power levels(350 PLUS Kw) then that's their choice, all I am saying is that its very hard on engine internals and this can be avoided by installing a low restriction exhaust system.

PETER

APS

Like you said Peter, we all have different approaches and different opinions. I don't think Nizpro or ChipTorque's suggestion is that changing the exhaust as well as the Inlet Manifold etc. won't make power or decrease exhaust back pressure. Simply that it can be done with the standard exhaust if you couldn't stand a different exhaust note. If you do the exhaust as well as the Nizpro mods (as BCL did) you should get another 40-50kW at the wheels.

The point is, with the Nizpro pipework and intercooler (it is different to the PWR unit Brian, it's crossflow) and the Inlet manifold change, the throttle response and low end torque is much better than on the standard manifold.

I'm sure the forum members benefit considerably from different companies taking different approaches to tuning and upgrades. It's great that Australia has some really professional tuning companies and that we each take different approaches to performance enhancement.

BTW BCL, I've had the T56 in my drive car now for almost a year.

Cheers

Lachlan Riddel

Technical Director

ChipTorque

Hi Loc11 All of that is fine I am simply pointing out to forum members that high exhaust back pressure is not good for engine life and causes higher thermal loads on the engine that should be avoided like the plague. Its my view that this approach is some what irresponsible as many on this forum are not aware of the risks associated , and the engine damage that can occur prematurely.The real objective is to maximize power at sensible boost levels and to keep thermal loads to a practical safe limit. This cannot be achieved with high exhaust back pressure, you dont need to be a rocket scientist to measure this and know that the stock exhaust is not up to the task. Well I will stay with my original comments that is the stock inlet manifold will produce a better low to mid range torque curve than the modified manifold being discussed. If you think differently that's fine, the way to prove this is to do back to back tests only changing the inlet manifolds. I have been there and tried it and know what the results are. Any way good chatting with you its all good fun.

PETER

APS

[Guest Big Mick]

  aps said:

FALCHOON The drive train limit really depends on the driver and the application. The t5 will cope with the PHASE II power and torque level as an every day car unless you drag race every week. The auto is quite good though it would be worth it to do a small upgrade ( increase line pressure ) on the valve body to help speed up the gear shifts at full throttle....

PETER

APS

Peter

Thanks for the oppurtunity to discuss things with you.

Do you know of anyone who has had problems with the auto after the stage II kit was fitted? Is the valve body mod something that any competent trans shop can do or does it require special expertise?

Thanks for your time.

Mick

[aps]

  Big Mick said:

  Peter

Thanks for the oppurtunity to discuss things with you.

Do you know of anyone who has had problems with the auto after the stage II kit was fitted?  Is the valve body mod something that any competent trans shop can do or does it require special expertise?

Thanks for your time.

Mick

BIG MICK, the valve body mod does take a fair amount of R and D time and we have been working on the upgrade for 9 months now. It is a mod that any competent auto shop should be able to develop over time. None of my customers in Melbourne have had a problem with the auto that I know of after the PHASE II system install though I am not saying that there will never be a problem as the PHASE II system does generate quite high torque.

PETER

APS

[Guest bossman]

I have not had any problems with my insurer, I have told them that when I pick up my new xr6t in early feb it will have an APS II kit fitted. I told them the extra power and fittings and they have ok'd it and not even increased the quoted price from the stock xr6t.

Peter, I am interested to get your opinion on if I should wait for the plug in harness before I get the stage II fitted or go with the current one. How hard is it to return to stock or take out if I ever go to sell the car in the future.

ps. appreciate all your postings, it was this reason I did not hesitate to purchase the phase II kit from day one on my brand new car. can't wait to get it.

[aps]

  bossman said:

ItI have not had any problems with my insurer, I have told them that when I pick up my new xr6t in early feb it will have an APS II kit fitted.  I told them the extra power and fittings and they have ok'd it and not even increased the quoted price from the stock xr6t. 

Peter, I am interested to get your opinion on if I should wait for the plug in harness before I get the stage II fitted or go with the current one.  How hard is it to return to stock or take out if I ever go to sell the car in the future.

ps.  appreciate all your postings, it was this reason I did not hesitate to purchase the phase II kit from day one on my brand new car.  can't wait to get it.

Bossman,Its quite easy to remove the current UNICHIP from the car to return the vehicle back to stock condition, so its really up to you as to how quickly you want to get your T up to 330Kw.Either way its quite a simple procedure to remove the UNICHIP. Thanks for your support and good luck with your new T.

PETER

APS

[aaronmihe]

Thanks for your answers RE: Intake and Exhaust mods (without software changes) Peter.

It's interesting to know what you guys have found and tried along the way.

Perhaps as an open suggetsion to all the tuners hanging out here... Why don't you tell us about things you've tried and that did and didn't work for you at various stages?

A.

[OwnaXR6T]

will removing the unichip with the phase 2 kit require the fuel pump and injectors to removed also?

[cdm]

  aps said:

  cdm said:

Thanks for the reply Peter. I had a UNICHIP in my old car (AU XR6) and was impressed hence why I am happy to come back to your company. I have noticed you are considering offering the phase one kit with injector and plug in chip in the future. If you go ahead with this, would it be possible for all the existing phase 1 owners to come in and purchase the injectors to compliment there existing chip? If this is the case, what output would we be looking at for injectors and chip? 300kw? Approximately how much would it cost for existing phase 1 owners to have the injectors fitted and chip appropriately retuned. I think offering this sort of kit would be a good way of reducing the stepping stone in price for the phase 2 kit.

On a slightly different not, I think if the phase 2 kit was $5000 and 350kw it would be the  best damn bang for your buck in town! However, I guess considering it has already gone through the EPA testing etc it wouldn't be possible to up the power and maintain the 'mean and grean' status. Thanks in advance.

Chris

Hi Chris, we have a real shortage of the injectors currently, though I hope we can supply Injectors sets later this year when supply Improves.The UNICHIP with plug in loom and matched injectors PHASE 1.5 on a stock xr6t wii generate 300Kw. Any higher power level may run you into a valve spring problem as the exhaust back pressure at the exhaust valve is very ugly when using the stock exhaust system. If we had the injectors now for sale price would be approx $1080 inc the dreaded GST.Well we are close to your target the PHASE II is 330Kw for $5650 installed and tuned, need to see where we can find another 20Kw and save $650. Thanks for your input this really helps APS to make future plans.

PETER

APS

G'day again Peter. I have recently purchased a second hand unichip for an XR6T and am willing to wait untill you start selling the injectors to current phase one owners before I have it installed. Is the price of $1080 for the injectors including installation and retuning the chip? If not, what would I expect to pay for the installation of the chip and injectors including tuning (minus the cost of the chip considering I already have that). Would the fact that I have the centre muffler removed and the K&N filter help in reducing exhaust back pressure thus reduce the chance of valve spring issues? Thanks.

Back onto the power question. To justify why I would like to pay $5000 for 350kw is based on a dollar per kw calculation.

Phase 1 = 40kw increase (approx $1650) = $41.25/kw

Phase 2 = 90kw increase (approx $5650) = $62.77/kw

Phase 1.5 looks good at 60kw (approx $2600) = $43.33/kw

hence how I arrived at $5000 for 350kw.

110kw increase ($5000) = $45.45/kw

Obviously it an extremely basic formula and there are many considerations to take into account....ie Phase II is EPA compliant etc (Does this require an engineers certificate? If so, approx how much more is this?). However, this is my personal bang for buck formula which helps me justify the dollars! Thanks for all your input to this forum! I hope to be popping in soon for the injector/chip install!

Cheers,

Chris

[aps]

  aaronmihe said:

Thanks for your answers RE: Intake and Exhaust mods (without software changes) Peter.

It's interesting to know what you guys have found and tried along the way.

Perhaps as an open suggetsion to all the tuners hanging out here... Why don't you tell us about things you've tried and that did and didn't work for you at various stages?

A.

No problem, I thought you would find this info interesting, there is no doubt in my mind that the unichip and injectors is the right place to start the power up process, though you need to address the exhaust over the 280Kw number.

PETER

APS