How Much Power Do You Want

[aps]

  Quote

Perhaps you tested a different intake system to the Nizpro one Peter, as we found substantial changes in throttle response and feel??? Maybe your development should include a Nizpro intake system (That said, maybe I should test one of YOUR exhaust systems if they are as good as you say)

Lachlan

LOK II, This is a complex issue, that is engine response, we tested a manifold of very similar design during our development period,and the advantage over the stock manifold was zero.More important is the performance of the entire intercooler system. I would much rather have the stock inlet manifold with the best intercooler performance in terms of air temp reduction with a very low pressure drop across the entire intercooler system ( including all of the intercooler plumbing ) than a modified top half of an inlet manifold with less effective intercooler performance. This in essence is what I believe is the difference between between the two approaches, and improved engine response with high torque and power is best served by awesome intercooler performance (as described earlier) combined with low exhaust back pressure and optimized ignition and air fuel mixtures. To promote a 350Kw upgrade which utilises the stock exhaust system at very high back pressure is in my view nearly an insult to xr6t customers, and demonstrates a lack of caring for customers. Any competent development engineer from a turbo charger background would be horrified as they know and understand the consequences of continued high exhaust back pressure and the elevated thermal loads on the engine.

PETER

APS

[Cobra]

Peter,

you started the thread and so I suppose you can talk about whatever you want

there some important issues being covered here, worthy of threads of their own

[Guest LOK@ChipTorque]

  BLKXRT said:

I think this thread may have been hijacked ..... 

posts are not to contain unauthorised advertising

stay with the topic "How Much Power Do You Want" 

Sorry guys! I'm not trying to hijack anything. Peter's points are perfectly valid and my opinion is different and I don't have an exhaust system to sell. I'm not on here to p*ss Peter or anyone else off. It was just my comments from testing the manifold and intercooler package.

In answer to your question - as much as possible

Lachlan

[hypnodoc]

  LOK11 said:

APS

Perhaps you tested a different intake system to the Nizpro one Peter, as we found substantial changes in throttle response and feel??? Maybe your development should include a Nizpro intake system (That said, maybe I should test one of YOUR exhaust systems if they are as good as you say)

Lachlan

Speed magazine completely agreed with what Lok11 says when they tested the NIZPRO car, a frew explorations with a 1 inch drillbit through the CAT biscuit should take care of any back pressure issues anyway

[aps]

  LOK11 said:

Sorry guys! I'm not trying to hijack anything. Peter's points are perfectly valid and my opinion is different and I don't have an exhaust system to sell. I'm not on here to p*ss Peter or anyone else off. It was just my comments from testing the manifold and intercooler package.

In answer to your question - as much as possible

Lachlan

No problem LOK II, I know you are making comments on the manifold that you have worked with. The fact is you need to do back to back testing on each manifold design to know if a new design is better than the stock design, we have done that work and know what the results are. Why anyone would change the inlet manifold on a street car xr6t at around 350Kw to 400Kw simply amazes me. Its a complete waste of time and money unless you want a different under hood appearance so that the police,EPA, and road traffic authorities can all DEFECT the car.That sounds like a well thought through engineering approach to me, NOT !

PETER

APS

[CnC]

  aps said:

  cdm said:

G'day again Peter. I have recently purchased a second hand unichip for an XR6T and am willing to wait untill you start selling the injectors to current phase one owners before I have it installed. Is the price of $1080 for the injectors including installation and retuning the chip? If not, what would I expect to pay for the installation of the chip and injectors including tuning (minus the cost of the chip considering I already have that).  Would the fact that I have the centre muffler removed and the K&N filter help in reducing exhaust back pressure thus reduce the chance of valve spring issues? Thanks.

Back onto the power question. To justify why I would like to pay $5000 for 350kw  is based on a dollar per kw calculation.

Phase 1 = 40kw increase (approx $1650) = $41.25/kw

Phase 2 = 90kw increase (approx $5650) = $62.77/kw

Phase 1.5 looks good at 60kw (approx $2600) = $43.33/kw

hence how I arrived at $5000 for 350kw.

110kw increase ($5000) = $45.45/kw

Obviously it an extremely basic formula and there are many considerations to take into account....ie Phase II is EPA compliant etc (Does this require an engineers certificate? If so, approx how much more is this?). However, this is my personal bang for buck formula which helps me justify the dollars! Thanks for all your input to this forum! I hope to be popping in soon for the injector/chip install!

Cheers,

          Chris

Chris, The $1080 would be for the injectors only, plus installation of the injectors unichip and dyno tuning/mapping work would be another $480 approx, there is a fair amount of time to do the mapping work with the larger injectors, and auto cars take longer to map than manual cars. These prices are based on a doing a stock car, if the car has lots of other mods then the time frame will be longer and the cost higher.Your price forumla makes sense and on that basis the PHASE1 and PHASE1.5 provide the best bang for buck.There is no doubt that higher power levels cost more on the Kw per dollar basis though this has always been the case and its unlikely to change into the future. IN any event thanks for your feedback and I trust that we can assist you in the near future.

PETER

APS

I find this quite interesting given the conversation that we had just yesterday..

[Gareth]

Wow, what a great thread!

I installed a powerchip not long after I bought my XR and now regret it. It has provided a fair bit more power, but there is NO after sales service and, guess what, I want more power now! So, I'm looking at stage 2, as it's really encouraging to see a company like APS who will actually discuss things and provide ongoing development. It's just a shame I didn't go that way in the first place.

Anyone interested in a 2nd hand powerchip?

[ROBiiE]

As most people on this forum, I enjoy spirited driving from time to time and the odd traffic light getaway. As a result, I would like the T to remain competitive for at least the next 2-3 yrs, and I think running a low 13sec quarter mile would be sufficient. It will probably happen that in 2-3 yrs, there will be a few affordable factory cars capable of running 13's at which point it might be time to upgrade

For me to achieve this, the APS Phase II kit seems like the way to go, especially since the system is EPA approved. Being a cautious person, I will probably wait for 6mths before fitting the system, to see if people are having any reliability issues. I want the T to retain its reliability over the next 2-3 yrs!!

Peter, you have mentioned in several posts/threads that APS are working on an upgrade to the auto box. Is their any further info you can provide to us? Details of the upgrade, costing, etc... Even though it might not be necessary, for my piece of mind, I would be interested in strengthening the auto box when fitting the Phase II kit.

In addition to being EPA approved, you mention the need for an engineer's certificate (to be completely above board for the authorities), how much does this certificate cost and what is involved?

Thanks for all the helpful info you have provided.

Cheers

Rob

[aps]

  ROBiiE said:

As most people on this forum, I enjoy spirited driving from time to time and the odd traffic light getaway. As a result, I would like the T to remain competitive for at least the next 2-3 yrs, and I think running a low 13sec quarter mile would be sufficient. It will probably happen that in 2-3 yrs, there will be a few affordable factory cars capable of running 13's at which point it might be time to upgrade

For me to achieve this, the APS Phase II kit seems like the way to go, especially since the system is EPA approved. Being a cautious person, I will probably wait for 6mths before fitting the system, to see if people are having any reliability issues. I want the T to retain its reliability over the next 2-3 yrs!!

Peter, you have mentioned in several posts/threads that APS are working on an upgrade to the auto box. Is their any further info you can provide to us? Details of the upgrade, costing, etc... Even though it might not be necessary, for my piece of mind, I would be interested in strengthening the auto box when fitting the Phase II kit.

In addition to being EPA approved, you mention the need for an engineer's certificate (to be completely above board for the authorities), how much does this certificate cost and what is involved?

Thanks for all the helpful info you have provided.

Cheers

Rob

G'day Robiie, The only car that I know of (not yet released) that is likely to be competitive in terms of price and performance is the twin turbo Late model camira and its around a year away from release. In the interim period the xr6t is untouchable in terms of value and performance.

On the auto trans issue we have a number of PHASE II cars with the auto upgrade out in the field being tested, and the results so far are very positive. I wont talk about costs at this stage as its possible that the specification and price may alter during the development period, and I dont want any confusion on this subject.

The cost of an engineers certificate will vary greatly, and it pays to talk with a number of engineers to get a quote , prior to proceeding. We have a list of registered engineers if you need some contact details or you can contact the SAE who can assist you with contact details.

As APS has the emission test data ( this is the expensive data ) that proves the APS PHASE II system continues to comply to ADR 79/00 the cost of the engineers certificate should not exceed $750 and I know of people who have paid much less, I guess it depends on how busy the engineer is.I hope this covers all of your questions,let me know if you need any other information

PETER

APS

[CnC]

Peter,

Do you have any details regarding this twin turbo commodore? I assume that you would plan a kit for it, or already be working on something in the back of your mind..