Injector Dynamics

[JVK]

Good read Toads,Very informative .

[discostig]

Yeah that drilling one was really good to read. I never liked the idea of drilling out an injector when I started reading about it here, sounded really heavy handed/low tech. If it was dirt cheap then maybe I would have considered it!

[IH8TOADS]

I read around the place that ID1000 injectors are exactly the same as XXX brand blah blah blah and they come from the same factory. Whilst the EV14 cores (including the ball and seat) do, what about the injector tips?

My understanding is that the 1000cc version of a common EV14 core (commonly0280158117, the 52lb'er from the GT500) have a machined tip (not done at the bosch factory), hence why Injector Dynamics for example market these as a 'specially modified' injector. Because they are modified, they have characterized them to obtain OEM spec data that is compatible with factory computers.

[KPM Motorsport]

I read around the place that ID1000 injectors are exactly the same as XXX brand blah blah blah and they come from the same factory. Whilst the EV14 cores (including the ball and seat) do, what about the injector tips?

My understanding is that the 1000cc version of a common EV14 core (commonly0280158117, the 52lb'er from the GT500) have a machined tip (not done at the bosch factory), hence why Injector Dynamics for example market these as a 'specially modified' injector. Because they are modified, they have characterized them to obtain OEM spec data that is compatible with factory computers.

This is correct.

They are Bosch EV14 injectors 'specially modified' by many companies that characterize them to obtain OEM spec data that is compatible with factory computers. This also includes ID.

Edited 30/01/13 06:50 AM by KPM Motorsport

[IH8TOADS]

So it's safe to assume that a typical EV14 in the 1000cc flow rate range is born from a common ancestor, however each company has its own method of modifying (to increase flow to 1000cc) and providing characterization data.

So different companies are indeed supplying a different injector. Sure the internals are the same, but the tip quality may vary as would the quality of the data. There are lots of Companies marketing 1000cc Bosch EV14's these days....and many cheap options available internationally / eBay, so what I'm trying to highlight is the need to stick to a reputable supplier with a good reputation.

On the discussion of data, it was a big learning curve for me when the ID characterization data became available. When I loaded the 4bar converted data (and later the 4 bar raw data) I was excessively lean at idle and I was stunned. But having accurate data allowed the re-calibration of the factory airflow model.....with a bucket load of hardware mods my engine was breathing much better and I needed to tell the PCM that exact fact so it would increase the injector pulsewidth. It's interesting because of all the tunes I have acquired of the years I am yet to see a single one with a complete airflow re-calibration to suit the correct injector scaling. The injector scaling data is simply fudged to meet the fuel requirements of the engine. This is why I'm curious when I read scaling data for the Aussie vehicles....I know from experience that correctly characterized data, whether it be from Ford Racing Parts or Injector Dynamics, will simply not work off the sheet in even a mildly modified XR6T. You absolutely have to re-calibrate the speed density tables so you end up with a ford engineering spec tune.

Re-calculating the speed density algorithm takes a LONG time on a XR6T where there is a unique slope and offset for each cam angle.....so I can't see tuners doing this anytime soon, so in a way the correct data isn't going to be used anyway.

Anyway some food for thought!

[turbotrana]

I still don't know why Bosch themselves can't put out a reasonably priced 1000cc injector along with data. I would have thought that the quantities are there to do a large production run.

[KPM Motorsport]

Posted Yesterday, 08:52 PM

"So it's safe to assume that a typical EV14 in the 1000cc flow rate range is born from a common ancestor, however each company has its own method of modifying (to increase flow to 1000cc) and providing characterization data.

So different companies are indeed supplying a different injector. Sure the internals are the same, but the tip quality may vary as would the quality of the data. There are lots of Companies marketing 1000cc Bosch EV14's these days....and many cheap options available internationally / eBay, so what I'm trying to highlight is the need to stick to a reputable supplier with a good reputation."

Spot on.

A reputable company that has data availble and back up service will always be your best option.

"Re-calculating the speed density algorithm takes a LONG time on a XR6T where there is a unique slope and offset for each cam angle.....so I can't see tuners doing this anytime soon, so in a way the correct data isn't going to be used anyway."

The correct data will allow the tuning of the Speed denity tables to be accurate and make sense when calculating changes according to the engines Modified VE.This is why back up service with experiance tuning Australian vehicles is an advantage.

Edited 30/01/13 10:17 PM by KPM Motorsport

[IH8TOADS]

The high slope for a ID1000 is actually 1203.17cc (0.03183 lb/sec) as applicable to an Aussie ford. What are other modified (1000cc) Bosch EV14's reporting? Is anyone witnessed any differences?

The 2000cc variants are an unmodified Bosch CNG EV-14 injector so it would be interesting to see the difference in the characterized data between companies (I know of at least 3 Companies now advertising characterized data for them) I suppose fuel temp, fuel type etc used in the tests would lead to slight deviations in the data.

I agree Trana it's bizarre that Bosch charge so much for their unmodified EV14's. I remember it being something like $600 an injector, and Bosch do not provide the characterized data....that has to be done independently.