Optimax Why Is It Bad For Bikes?

[AMoffat]

Dude why run a R65 on it? Low compression and surely a waste of money.

I havce run my Ducati, liquid cooled, injected, two valver on it and it is fine.

Have run the T on it and it is fine, get more klms per tank in fact.

[Guest PaulM]

I have fallen victim to Shell's marketing campaign and believe it to be a quality assured product from refinery to pump, even delivered in its own designated tankers.

Perhaps I am wrong, and I am always prepared to be corrected if I am wrong in mays, unless you are a born again who wants to baptise me.

I also use a lead replacement additive (haven't upgraded the valves/heads yet) but always buy optimax because I believe I am getting a consistent product that is never tampered with by service station owners. (They don't do that do they?)

My son rides the bike 99.9% of the time and he claims unequalled perfomance from this combination. I gather he pushes it pretty hard and am quite prepared to take his word for it. Personally, I couldn't tell you what sort of fuel is in it when I ride it, never go over 80kmh and ride like an old fart who should be in a cage, I have to, otherwise I ride like an old fart going through a mid life crisis and I get booked doing 100klm an hour over the limit and loose my licence for a year!! I am very very restrained on it now.

I know we have gone off the forum topic a tad here, but I would appreciate input; Am I wasting money every time I fill the BMW up with optimax or am I paying for a consistency of performance and lack of gunk build up?

And is it hurting the T?

[mickq]

  PaulM said:

I have fallen victim to Shell's marketing campaign and believe it to be a quality assured product from refinery to pump, even delivered in its own designated tankers.

Perhaps I am wrong, and I am always prepared to be corrected if I am wrong in mays, unless you are a born again who wants to baptise me.

I also use a lead replacement additive (haven't upgraded the valves/heads yet) but always buy optimax because I believe I am getting a consistent product that is never tampered with by service station owners. (They don't do that do they?)

My son rides the bike 99.9% of the time and he claims unequalled perfomance from this combination. I gather he pushes it pretty hard and am quite prepared to take his word for it. Personally, I couldn't tell you what sort of fuel is in it when I ride it, never go over 80kmh and ride like an old fart who should be in a cage, I have to, otherwise I ride like an old fart going through a mid life crisis and I get booked doing 100klm an hour over the limit and loose my licence for a year!! I am very very restrained on it now.

I know we have gone off the forum topic a tad here, but I would appreciate input; Am I wasting money every time I fill the BMW up with optimax or am I paying for a consistency of performance and lack of gunk build up?

And is it hurting the T?

Nah, its not hurting sh*t, so long as every now and then when the engine is warm, you rev it out a little.

In the rare situation where excess carbon may be forming from too much low rev driving or too rich a mixture (that one isnt really relevant to XR6T's) then running it up near redline or else doing a nice long 100kmh cruise will ensure any crap is removed. (Ever wondered why your engine seems to run much better and smoother at the end of a long highway drive?).

You do get consistancy with Optimax, pure and simple. And yes they do use dedicated trucks or sections in trucks (petrol tankers have multiple explosion resistant sections in the one truck that can each carry a different fuel if they want).

Its their premium product. They dont take chances with it. They know many people with expensive cars and people who drive hard use it and pay extra for the pleasure, so they take extra care at every stage.

that's why its ONLY sold at refinery owned stations. Not at independently owned shell servos.

The reason they can therefore guarantee the quality is because refinery owned servos are paid differently than independently owned ones.

Independents pay per litre that is delivered. So its in their interests to get the cheapest stuff they can, or get good stuff and "water it down" with cheap crap like ethanol. It means it will cost them less per litre you buy off them, so they make more profit.

So if I order 10,000 litres at 80c per litre (total $8000) and water it down with some ethanol, say 2,000 litres (lets say at 10c/litre $200 - just a guess) then I will have overall paid just $8200 for 12,000 litres of crap to sell instead of $9600.

Might not sound like much, but if you sell 100,000 litres per week it adds up to an extra $14,000 per week profit.

Refinery owned servos are paid per litre they pump into your car. So watering it down doesnt benefit them as its in their interest to be sure the stuff pumped into your car is the best they can possibly get, since it doesnt cost them any more to do so. They have no benefit they can gain from adding crap to the fuel because if they pump 10,000 litres they get paid for 10,000 litres. Pumping 12,000 litres because you added ethanol or toluene doesnt help them when for no extra cost they can get shell to deliver more fuel to them.

Shell also do random checks of Optimax pumps to ensure all is as it should be.

So yes, there is extra quality you are getting. The same applies for other high quality fuel too, such as Mobil 8000.

When you go to independently owned stations, you will see (regardless of Mobil or Shell) that they sell their best fuel as Premium PULP, not Mobil8000 or Optimax.

Its different fuel, usually 96 Octane instead of 98. Also lacks the other goodies in it that makes their top fuel better.

Someone may say Ive fallen for their advertising, or shell have generated brand loyalty etc, but that's crap. Ive done a sh1t load of first hand research into every fuel, because when it comes to engines and making them run as well as possible, Im a purist. I dont give a stuff what fuel it is or who makes it or what voodoo magic it does or does not contain. If it gives me more power, better performance and is good for my engine, then I will be a fan of it straight away. I decide that based on research and first hand experience, and nothing else.

that's why I use different fuels in different vehicles I have.

The fact is, Optimax is very good in most engines. Some engines like Mobil8000 or BP Ultimate or similar, but that's just an individual trait for that engine.

Edited 30/12/03 03:06 PM by mickq

[bwhinnen]

I can't speak for bikes and this post may be a little off topic, but Optimax has a higher specific gravity than the other two 98RON fuels in Australia, from what I've been lead to believe from other sources (both in Australia and the UK) is that it also contains a more volatile mix of aromatic hydrocarbons. Aparantly this makes it go off a little quicker than the other 98RON fuels.

Having said that one of the guys in the WRX club in QLD (sorry I own one) ran some testing on Optimax versus BP Ultimate with the help of CNJ in Brisbane. Running on the dyno with the fuel taken from the containers rather than tanks, and lines flushed before each test (return running to a seperate container) they checked and retuned the car on each fuel.

Outcome, they were able to squeeze an extra 2 - 4kw out of the Optimax over the Ultimate due to being able to run slighty more advance on the timing. And when running the Optimax on the same timing and fueling settings (boost was kept to the same level throughout) it ran richer than the Ultimate.

What does this say? That Optimax will allow slightly more advanced timing than the Ultimate (note these were taken from two independant stations with a high turn over of the fuels).

I've heard of a few WRX engines letting go when they were tuned specifically for Optimax and the owner used Ultimate instead, coincidence? Possibly.

In reality for a standard car (one without a replacement ECU / piggy back / chip) running standard timing, fueling and boost levels will be fine with any fuel. A car that has been tuned aggresively on Optimax (to the ragged edge) may not run on Ultimate or Synergy 8000 (we don't have that in Brisbane so couldn't test) as well and cause pre-detonation or pinging.

Cheers

Brett

[ducatijb]

  mickq said:

If Ducati claim it ruins the bores, then they have doen something stupid with their design and manufacturer of their bores. Dont blame the fuel for it. Its not the first time Ducati have done something dumb...their bikes have style but that's all.

Mick you obviously have never owned a Duke

The Duke warmed my cockles as much as any other.Not from the action of pressing in the little button at the back of the tube housing for partial throttle opening,but the wheezing noises of two pistons stretching their legs,the rumbling and chinking noises of a dry clutch spinning and the heady throb of the big bore power pulses supposedly silenced by road legal Termignoni alloy cans Is that what they mean when they say Japanese bikes have no soul? I think soooooo

I have had both 2 + 4 valve dukes which have both ran fine on Optimax as does my Aprilia

[AMoffat]

Yeah, Ducatis' are where iy is at. I have had big bore fours and eventually you get bored with them. You need something that lives under you, not acts as a turbine.

Sounds like I should have bought a V8

[Falchoon]

I can't comment on Optimax and motorbikes though I have heard similar stories that a number of people won't use it,

However when I first got my T, I used to just use any old PULP and found the performance to be a bit hit and miss - great one day and poor the next (similar weather conditions). Only Optimax is 98 octane (in ACT) so this could of been a contributing factor. So I have changed to running exclusively Optimaxx and performance seems more consistent. This is just by the "seat of the pants" dyno, not an official one.

[Guest NUMB]

Ive never been able to use Optimax, as it is unavailable at any W.A servo's, as such, I refuse to buy Shell Petrol.

I run Ultimate 9 times out of 10 and I find it to be an extremely consistant fuel, I'm currently driving a Galant VR4, so although its not to the performance level of the XR6T, its still a high performance vehicle and reacts to different fuels very differently. Ultimate will give me the same performance, day in, day out, all to a very high level.

Id love to give optimax a go though, shame its not sold in W.A :(

[Guest PaulM]

MickQ

Thanks for taking the time to post that one.

I shan't be changing my optimax buying habbits.

cheers

Paul