Kosij Donating Members 2,045 Member For: 13y 6m 22d Gender: Male Posted 02/08/12 11:53 PM Share Posted 02/08/12 11:53 PM (edited) ^^ you miss the point!If mick offered this so called pre dyno inspection for say $100! Stating car is all good to be tuned..... Then BANG a rod blows....... What are you going to blame mick and make him pay $8000 for a new engine fitted? Remember he did say in the pre dyno report that it was safe to tune!!!! No way could micks business remain viable.. Chit happens and this is a clear example of this!Actuator hose just pushed on! More boost more pressure more change of coming off and that it did! Edited 02/08/12 11:54 PM by Kosij Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impellor Member 835 Member For: 14y 7m 12d Gender: Not Telling Posted 02/08/12 11:55 PM Share Posted 02/08/12 11:55 PM Oddly enough this comment annoys me..Sticking your car on a Dyno you are taking a risk.,. Pushing an engine beyond the specifications of the manufacturer is playing russian roulette.. And with fords it does seem that sometimes it could be 1 bullet in a revolver.. But with some it's like holding an automatic pistol against your head because you don't know any better.Tuners of all sorts are varying talents.. But in saying that the tuner in question probably still knows a sh*tload more then the average Joe.. But expecting him to inspect every car fully before a dyno run up? When he's probably already pushed for time?Someone compared it to Pre-flight checks a pilot does.. Which (yes I have flown alot of planes) is mostly visual inspections anyway.. Ailerons move.. Brakes work. Rudder works.. No water in the fuel. Engine has Oil.. Most tuners probably do these little visual checks and don't even realise it.. Doesn't mean things can't go wrong.. How do they check the integrity of the pistons.. Or rods.. Or oil pump gears.. Should they check every single hose fitting (because we all know how easily O-rings bust off)..No I'm sorry this happened to the OP.. And yes if you can prove genuine negligence on behalf of the tuner go for it.. But I stand by the YOU PAY TO PLAY!!! Tuners can't be held responsible for car they know nothing about.. especially when people try and save a buck by fitting stuff themselves.. Ratters probably seen a bunch of cases where people's self fitted intercooler pipes have popped off on Dyno runs..I really see your point here. But I also believe that when one knows that they are playing with a grenade. That the appropriate pre-checks are carried out, on the basis that if something is amiss, its going to end very badly. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratter Member 6,793 Member For: 18y 9m 5d Gender: Male Location: @ my laptop Posted 02/08/12 11:57 PM Share Posted 02/08/12 11:57 PM most people want to bargain our price down if they can, most will not pay more, yes I'm sure there would a few but most want to do things themselves and begrudge paying for our time.As mentioned, if we gave a car a clean bill of health and a piston broke because of unknown or unseen circumstances, we could be held liable because we said it was ok to continue.How much time would you personally be prepared to pay for? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impellor Member 835 Member For: 14y 7m 12d Gender: Not Telling Posted 02/08/12 11:58 PM Share Posted 02/08/12 11:58 PM ^^ you miss the point!If mick offered this so called pre dyno inspection for say $100! Stating car is all good to be tuned..... Then BANG a rod blows....... What are you going to blame mick and make him pay $8000 for a new engine fitted? Remember he did say in the pre dyno report that it was safe to tune!!!! No way could micks business remain viable.. Chit happens and this is a clear example of this!Actuator hose just pushed on! More boost more pressure more change of coming off and that it did!Jason, to be frank. You have not understood a word I have said here. Its about factoring in cost. The proprietor can be responsible for it, or it may be carried by an insurer.Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impellor Member 835 Member For: 14y 7m 12d Gender: Not Telling Posted 03/08/12 12:10 AM Share Posted 03/08/12 12:10 AM (edited) most people want to bargain our price down if they can, most will not pay more, yes I'm sure there would a few but most want to do things themselves and begrudge paying for our time.As mentioned, if we gave a car a clean bill of health and a piston broke because of unknown or unseen circumstances, we could be held liable because we said it was ok to continue.How much time would you personally be prepared to pay for?The success of the idea would depend on how well it was promoted. I'm thinking that if you told me that if the pistons are possibly damaged, and this has the potential to destory the engine. I would be all ears. Because without a full inspection no one is going to really know. I'm thinking $200 would be a reasonable price for a standard car and maybe $500 for something up to 350rwkw's. Over 350 cross your fingers. You would have to do the figures. You are best placed to assess the feasiblity of this, so you would have a good idea as to failure rates. But as I said previously, it could be offered as an option. KPM have been doing this type of stuff successfully for some time now. I think the way forward would be doing packages that include servicing. Cheers Edited 03/08/12 12:11 AM by Impellor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratter Member 6,793 Member For: 18y 9m 5d Gender: Male Location: @ my laptop Posted 03/08/12 12:14 AM Share Posted 03/08/12 12:14 AM (edited) Not sure, but don't think KPM's coverage is a pre dyno inspection/coveragewhy not be responsible for our our actions in life rather than expecting somebody else to fork out for any inconvenience we may suffer through life's travel?People have tried suing McDonald's in the past because the coffee was to hot and scolded themselves when they clumsily spilled it on them selves, yet I know a couple of people that insist that the coffee is to a certain temp and will send it back if it's not. How do you win?People trip over on the foot path and try to sue the council, how about looking where you walk.Kids fall out of trees just doing what we did as kids and parents try suing the child care centre. sh*t happensIf you decide to push your car past the factory tolerances, be prepared that things may go wrong, if the tuner out and out stuffed up, sort it out with them, if it was because of a part failed, cop it on the chin or try taking it up with ford and see how far it would go.If you paid the tuner to build the motor to take XXXX amount of power and it failed before that power was achieved, there is an obligation on his behalf, we have to remember what ford build these motors to handle 4.5-6 psi on a BA/F xr6t, 9 psi on a Typhoon or Tornado any more becomes a risk.yes there are plenty of stories that go way past this amount, but that's what ford build them to doIF YOU WANT IT SAFE, LEAVE IT STOCK Edited 03/08/12 12:27 AM by ratter 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosij Donating Members 2,045 Member For: 13y 6m 22d Gender: Male Posted 03/08/12 12:23 AM Share Posted 03/08/12 12:23 AM Mad I will pay the $500 please smash 20psi and hmmmmmm 400rwkws will be fine......... O no you blew up my engine a new f6 engine will be fine thanks.The op's questions was simple! Yet half the replys are irrelevant to he's question.If my cars engine blew up on the dyno due to a spike being caused by the actuator hose well that's my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Wiggum Moar Powar Babeh Lifetime Members 19,331 Member For: 19y 5m 9d Gender: Male Location: Perth Posted 03/08/12 12:30 AM Share Posted 03/08/12 12:30 AM Hey mate, as Ralph said, unless you signed a contract of some sort saying that you accept any liability if something happens to the car whilst in the tuners possession, or if there's a clear sign in the workshop when you walk in (then this would be implied consent to this liability) then you'd have a good chance of getting your motor rebuilt for free.This is so because as in any situation of where one party to a contract has extensively more knowledge than the other they 'generally' have a duty of care to the unknowledgeable party to provide adequate service. Basically like a doctor/patient relationship but they have laws to stop them from being sued from making stuff ups, I highly doubt tuners have similar legislation covering them.What I would do is go see a solicitor and tell him that you didn't not accept that you would wear any liability if damage occurred during the tuning and see what they say, if they could prepare you a nice threatening letter to the tuner that will make him crap himself then he might just cough up and fix the motor or pay up to have it fixed. I think this is the best way to go and sounds like you would have a decent chance in a negligence action due tot he duty of care the tuner owes.I'm sure spending a few hundred to see a good solicitor could save you a bit of money and stuffing around in the futureDon't misunderstand what I asked, IMHO the OP is liable for the damage. If the day and age comes that any dyno operator can be held liable for workmanship other than his own, the days of us bolting our own parts on a car and getting others to tune/provide power runs will be over.A question that nobody has asked it where is the over boost protection in the old tune? Sure you can't tune to prevent mechanical failure (such as a hose blowing off) but you can take steps to reduce the risk of engine damage if this should occur. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HI PSI Member 1,586 Member For: 18y 9m 7d Gender: Male Location: Central Queensland Posted 03/08/12 12:18 PM Share Posted 03/08/12 12:18 PM One would think that the dyno run in question would have been logged. Would this not prove or disprove the claims of the tuner ?Just a thought.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ale Member 249 Member For: 13y 6m 7d Posted 03/08/12 10:50 PM Share Posted 03/08/12 10:50 PM ^^^^^^was just reading this and wondering the same, does the sct or vcm software not have a boost cut? And if so why wasn't it set? I know my tuner when playing with my other car and its supermarket ecu sets the boost and rev cut before any runs. This question would've been my first. If their account is true (I'd want dyno logs as a minimum)Id be surprised the shop in question is even pulling it down, I'd be charging the customer for my time if the rebuild didn't go ahead afterwards.Excuse my ignorance, but do u guys run rising rate fuel pressure regs on the tuned Barras? If so only some top end ecus will have the ability to cut everything if this line blows off and has a lean out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now