1St Timer @ Track Tyre Q, New Or Old?

[Bulletime]

So I'm planning on going to Wakefield in the next month or two and I'm wondering what to do about tyres.

I'm a first timer on the track with my car, did a v8 race day at eastern creek a few years ago but I expect to be pretty tame on my first outing in my own car.

Anyway so I have a set of pretty shagged falken 452s, fronts are pretty smooth on the inside edge. I also have a nice new shiny set of Michelin Pilot Super Sports from tirerack sitting in the garage ready to go on.

How toasted are my Michelins likely to get on a noob outting? Should I keep just a pair from the 452s, or even keep the old set?

Other things im concerned about are the front 452s are probably defect worthy so I really need to do something about them, I probably can't put the Michelins on the front and keep the 452s on the rear can I? I think that will make the cat go a bit spastic. I thought about flipping the tread on the front but then I'm advertising my tyres are shagged.

Someone suggested I just be safe and put the new tyres on since the fronts are pretty bad and just deal with however much wear I get on them. Ive also got a lot of pressure from the wife to get the new tyres out of the garage.

Grateful for any advice, and hear other people's experiences. Just looking to have a fun time at the track in the outing.

Cheers!

P.s. I just upgraded to slotted DBA 4000s on the front and ebc reds all round in case that changes the suggestions due to the extra demands on the front.

[nelsonian101]

What sizes are the tyres?

Do you only have the one set of rims?

If you have 2 sets, put the Falkens on in the morning (finish them off) then put the Michemins on in the PM.

I've used 275 rear Mich. Supersports at Eastern Creek once. As a road tyre, they were impressive but wont come close to the grip of a decent semi.

The FK452's will squeal and slip all day. They will understeer all over the top of wakefield and will oversteer exiting the fish hook. Set about 35psi cold which should go to around 40psi hot. Good fun with crap tyres though but if it was me, I'd use the Michelins and keep the wife happy.

What dia. and width are your current wheels?

I have some 2 X shagged 245/40 18" Toyo R888's you could borrow/buy sitting on some 18 x 18" FPV wheels.

Case of beer and you could borrow them for a day if this helps.

I'll probably be there for a speed of the streets day chasing 1.08's on Thursday 16th after World Time Attack at Eastern Creek for motivation too!

Good choice with the brake upgrade. Brakes and tyres are the first things your notice need improvement when tracking your heavy car for the first time.

Make sure you change your fluid to some DOT 5.1 too as a minimum.

[Bulletime]

Ha that'd be an awesome deal for a case of beer! Even shagged semi slicks should smoke streets? Only problem is I don't think I can make Wakefield till late September :(

I've just got the one set of the stock 245/40 R18s (xr8 option).

I guess I should just toss the old ones, keep the wife happy, and be safe for the next few thousand street kms. Would it mess the balance of the car running your semi's on the rear with the Michs on the front?

RE the brakes, a local performance brake shop laughed me away saying I'd be fine with the stock brake fluid, that and at the time I wasn't keen on bleeding the brakes shyed me away from it. But, now I've gone through putting the brakes on I think changing the brake fluid would be pretty easy. But pretty happy with the brake upgrade so far, still bedding in though and the front grip lets the braking down atm.

BTW I've watched some of you track day vids and they looked pretty awesome, I'm super keen to hit the track, just hope I don't end up getting bitten too hard and need to spend lots of money (that I dont have) lol.

Just noticed how many spelling mistakes Ive got in my first post, guess I was in a rush on my iphone at lunch to post lol, hate fat fingering the letters and auto correct.

[rbjet]

As nelsonian said. Change to dot 5.1 brake fluid as you most definitely cook the standard stuff.

How much power are you making? I ran my average street tyres on my last track and I didn't think they were too bad but with 300kw they struggled to put the power down out of the corners.

I also had fairly basic suspension too with a lot of body role so I couldn't get my car to under steer through a corner as I couldn't go fast enough.

If you car is standard then I wouldn't worry about your tyres too much. Just go out, have fun and see how it goes.

But change that brake fluid!

[nelsonian101]

  On 23/07/2012 at 10:46 AM, Bulletime said:

Ha that'd be an awesome deal for a case of beer! Even shagged semi slicks should smoke streets? Only problem is I don't think I can make Wakefield till late September :(

I've just got the one set of the stock 245/40 R18s (xr8 option).

I guess I should just toss the old ones, keep the wife happy, and be safe for the next few thousand street kms. Would it mess the balance of the car running your semi's on the rear with the Michs on the front?

RE the brakes, a local performance brake shop laughed me away saying I'd be fine with the stock brake fluid, that and at the time I wasn't keen on bleeding the brakes shyed me away from it. But, now I've gone through putting the brakes on I think changing the brake fluid would be pretty easy. But pretty happy with the brake upgrade so far, still bedding in though and the front grip lets the braking down atm.

BTW I've watched some of you track day vids and they looked pretty awesome, I'm super keen to hit the track, just hope I don't end up getting bitten too hard and need to spend lots of money (that I dont have) lol.

Just noticed how many spelling mistakes Ive got in my first post, guess I was in a rush on my iphone at lunch to post lol, hate fat fingering the letters and auto correct.

Don't listen to the people that say Dot 4 or Super Dot 4 is enough for the track. The boiling point drops over time and I'd just put in some 5.1 and not have it in the back of your mind when you are pulling your car up continually from 180kmh.

Cooldown is important at Wakefield too. Do a cooldown lap trying to stay off the brakes coasting through the turns. I also leave the complex, straight after a session and go left up the hwy for a few kms in the 100km zone. Cools the car nicely. Do a U turn, back into the pits and leave handbrake off in the pits. Open bonnet, check tyre pressures as they will increase rapidly after your first hard session.

Even shagged R888's will smash any street tyre for circuit grip. 100 tread wear rate will be far stickier than the 300+ Michelins.

If I still have them in September, you are welcome to borrow them. I am now using either Hankook Z214 or Porsche slicks.

Even if you used the R888's on the front, the car will stop a lot quicker and turn in a lot better. A bit of oversteer is always fun if your rears arent as sticky. It's also easy to swap and experiment on the day. Get a cheap trolley jack and jack up one side of the car (with track stands or your stock jack for extra safety) to switch between front and rears.

With stickier rears and bad fronts these heavy cars can often power understeer I.e. push the front wide at the exit under power. This may happen at the fish hook if the R888 are used on the rear and crap 452's on the front.

Main thing is, don't get too serious first time out and just enjoy it. Do as much car prep as you can in order to have a safe and trouble free day.

[Bulletime]

  On 23/07/2012 at 9:54 PM, rbjet said:

As nelsonian said. Change to dot 5.1 brake fluid as you most definitely cook the standard stuff. How much power are you making? I ran my average street tyres on my last track and I didn't think they were too bad but with 300kw they struggled to put the power down out of the corners. I also had fairly basic suspension too with a lot of body role so I couldn't get my car to under steer through a corner as I couldn't go fast enough. If you car is standard then I wouldn't worry about your tyres too much. Just go out, have fun and see how it goes. But change that brake fluid!

cars running stock power for now (famous last words), and everything else but brakes are stock, no major upgrades planned for 18 months when I renew the novated lease on it.

  On 23/07/2012 at 10:14 PM, nelsonian101 said:

Don't listen to the people that say Dot 4 or Super Dot 4 is enough for the track. The boiling point drops over time and I'd just put in some 5.1 and not have it in the back of your mind when you are pulling your car up continually from 180kmh. Cooldown is important at Wakefield too. Do a cooldown lap trying to stay off the brakes coasting through the turns. I also leave the complex, straight after a session and go left up the hwy for a few kms in the 100km zone. Cools the car nicely. Do a U turn, back into the pits and leave handbrake off in the pits. Open bonnet, check tyre pressures as they will increase rapidly after your first hard session. Even shagged R888's will smash any street tyre for circuit grip. 100 tread wear rate will be far stickier than the 300+ Michelins. If I still have them in September, you are welcome to borrow them. I am now using either Hankook Z214 or Porsche slicks. Even if you used the R888's on the front, the car will stop a lot quicker and turn in a lot better. A bit of oversteer is always fun if your rears arent as sticky. It's also easy to swap and experiment on the day. Get a cheap trolley jack and jack up one side of the car (with track stands or your stock jack for extra safety) to switch between front and rears. With stickier rears and bad fronts these heavy cars can often power understeer I.e. push the front wide at the exit under power. This may happen at the fish hook if the R888 are used on the rear and crap 452's on the front. Main thing is, don't get too serious first time out and just enjoy it. Do as much car prep as you can in order to have a safe and trouble free day.

Ok so I'll change the brake fluid, I just wasn't that keen on doing it but I don't think it will be too hard, can't be as hard as when I replaced my rotors and pads. Thanks for the tips for the track day. I hope you still have the R888s in Sept

I'm sure I'll have a blast, it will be good to learn to control the car properly too, really can't wait but have to at the moment since I've got a lot on.

Hopefully I'll see you at the track, I'll let you know when Im heading out, and thanks for all the advice.

[Bulletime]

So now I'm wondering if maybe I'll keep just the best 2 from the falkens, that way combined (hopefully) with nelsonians R888s, or even not, then it should save my new Michs, I should be able to easily store 2 falkens in the garage, and just get them put on the car the day before the track day. What do you guys think? Am I over thinking this? Good compromise? Need a slap and just go with the Michs and maybe R888s?

  On 23/07/2012 at 10:14 PM, nelsonian101 said:

..... Do as much car prep as you can in order to have a safe and trouble free day.

Did the oil change a few weeks ago Nulon 10-40w (coming from stock erk), bleeding brakes on the weekend hopefully with dot 5.1 fluid, got the brakes sorted, is it worth removing the rubber seal around the edge of the bonnet, I've seen it mentioned to do that, is it hard (or even possible) to put it back on? Is it damaging in any other way?

Thanks guys, sorry for all the repeatedly noob questions, I do a lot of kays on the car ~26-28k a yr and don't really wanna fry the new Michs too much just yet.

[nelsonian101]

Removing the rubber strip from the back of the bonnet takes 30 seconds. The white plastic rivets just pop out and back in easily.

Don't be scared to mismatch tyres. I rarely run the same tyres front and rear on the street or track.

I've locked in August 16th for my next visit to Wakefield assuming rain isn't forecast.

Wont be using the 2 X R888's this day but send me a PM when you want to borrow them.

Last trackday was at Marulan where the fat Turbo Taxi actually topped the lap time sheets with a mid 43 late in the day!

http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/results.cgi?22/07/2012.MDTC

Don't underestimate how quick these cars car be even on ridiculously tight tracks when set up correctly!

[Bulletime]

Cheers I'll PM you when I've got it sorted, at this stage probably either 20th September (if I'm over the jet lag) or 3rd October, so long as it's not raining.

That's a serious time on such a twisty track well done! Beat plenty of cars a hell of a lot better suited to the track then our taxis lol.

Probably do the rubber seals too thanks for the info.

Going to just get two of the Michs put on tomorrow, keep the two best 452s on and take off the Michs for the R888s at the track, should be sweet.