300+ On Liquid Gas...

[Spoony]

That's fair enough, but examples and experience has been presented re the switching, and not just hearsay. No ones arguing there would be a 'variation' in the mixtures etc, but it being a destructive or worrying issue seems not to be a concern.

As far as I'm aware the output of the Orbital based system that Ford use isn't up to supply and FG XR6T's needs. That would be why. Also it would require a whole load more R&D to sell as a factory car with warranty for a far smaller number of sales. They would have crunched the numbers and figured it was probably not worth the investment. Ratter has done FG F6's with JTG systems, can't say I've heard any blowing up yet. My car also has now done 50,000kms on the gas and has 175,000kms on it, no explosions yet.

[bionicxr6t05]

Doesnt the orbital system still rely on tank pressure? Ford system uses a 6 speed liquid Pump to achieve higher than tank pressures (over 5 bar higher) and is a return system with pressure and temperature sensors in the rail an tank to compensate for different propane/butane levels...

[Paulie2256]

Spoony, do a test for me please. Switch the system over from petrol to lpg at 4500rpm and 15psi and report.

ps: I do believe reliability and power is achievable with the right set up. It's the switching between fuels that complicates things. Even N/A dual fuel vehicles have issues after time.

Edited 29/06/12 12:18 AM by Paulie2256

[Spoony]

http://www.fordmods.com/ford-lpg-hydrogen-hho-cng-conversions-f44/bf-xt-with-orbital-liquid-injection-t88925.html seem to have a pump and return line. Not saying the EcoLPI system is exactly the same as I know there was specific development for it. It may well run a specific pump, but then again probably not as it's not needed supply was for an atmo Falcon

[Spoony]

  On 29/06/2012 at 12:14 AM, Paulie2256 said:

Spoony, do a test for me please. Switch the system over from petrol to lpg at 4500rpm and 15psi and report.

Not 100% sure, but I'm guessing you're being smart? Any car that runs 15psi and is tuned for 10psi is going to lunch something irrelevant of the fuel!

[ratter]

  On 28/06/2012 at 11:29 PM, bionicxr6t05 said:

From my experience its like an auto gear change under full load the timing goes haywire for a split second but then again I havent had much experience with the jtg kits? And I am also monitoring factory tunes/ bolt on vapour injection systems on factory cars, this can be tuned out hay ratter?

The spark changes on gear change due to the load cell that the motor has dropped into, yes it could be tuned out, but you do not want it to as things start to become a compromise and the cars start to get more like old school type cars in the way they behave.

  On 28/06/2012 at 11:34 PM, Panda Eyes said:

true ratter, but that's what e85 is for. when you can easily make 350+ with the petrol products readily available, then why spend 4k on a gas setup?

as stated. it can be done, and some do things for the challenge, and sure, why not? but normally people think gas to save money, not to get better performance.

I dont think gas is suited to high power boosted applications...

but true, that is only my opinion.

There is a cost associated with setting up for E85, not as dear as lpg but still a cost. With E85 most cars will use approx 30% more fuel to do the same mileage as 98 and as the price difference is about 30%, there is no cost saving in day to day driving. Yes LPG uses more for the same mileage, but the cost is a lot cheaper, my super pursuit costs approx 50% to fuel and run for the same distance as running on 98.

There is a street driven mustange with a turbo 6 engine running on LPG that has just gone into the 8's if I remember correctly

  On 28/06/2012 at 11:56 PM, bionicxr6t05 said:

The only thing im arguing is my original comment which remins correct as the principal is the same no matter what setup you use, when I was in melbourne for the launch of the lpi falcon I asked one f the engineers if they had played with turbo charging the lpi engine and all he said was, its not sustainable for warranty reasons... Wouldnt elaborate any more but that in itself says something

And this thread has been hi jacked enough so il leave it at that cheers

Manufacturers look at a lot of different things that us consumers normally overlook before releasing a vehicle, same as they do not think the current FG ute platform can handle the 335 engine, but we know there are plenty of happy customers out ther with supercharged GS's that make more than factory power levels

  On 29/06/2012 at 12:12 AM, bionicxr6t05 said:

Doesnt the orbital system still rely on tank pressure? Ford system uses a 6 speed liquid Pump to achieve higher than tank pressures (over 5 bar higher) and is a return system with pressure and temperature sensors in the rail an tank to compensate for different propane/butane levels...

The orbital system also uses an intank fuel pump

  On 29/06/2012 at 12:14 AM, Paulie2256 said:

Spoony, do a test for me please. Switch the system over from petrol to lpg at 4500rpm and 15psi and report.

ps: I do believe reliability and power is achievable with the right set up. It's the switching between fuels that complicates things. Even N/A dual fuel vehicles have issues after time.

We have had cars switch back to 98 under boost on the dyno due to low fuel levels and beside ping there has been no problem, but the ping was from a car running a lpg only tune, when a dual fuel tune has switched back there has been no issues. NA's running quality injected systems, whether vapour or liquid normally suffer very little problems as long as the routine maintenance is carried out, it's the old style mixer ring system that most are familiar with that cause the issues

[JH07XR6T]

spoony, your aftermarket cat probably doesnt trigger a check engine light, as its coded out as part of your tune.

dont mind the thread jacking, this is all valuable info.

[Spoony]

haha yeah super thread jack!

Yeah I thought that to re the tune but I've flash it back to stock before and still no check engine light. Ratter would be able to confirm if something else is disabled outside the tune that would effect this as I'm not sure.

[ratter]

Dan , your cat should trigger the engine light with a stock tune loaded, but the ecu does not do a diagnostic trip all the time, certain conditions have to be met before the trip will occur and then the light should come on, not sure how long you have driven with the stock tune loaded or what conditions, but the only thing I can think of is the driving did not meet the trip conditions to do the cat test.

[Paulie2256]

  On 29/06/2012 at 12:23 AM, Spoony said:

Not 100% sure, but I'm guessing you're being smart? Any car that runs 15psi and is tuned for 10psi is going to lunch something irrelevant of the fuel!

Yeah was being smart. Not sure what psi your car is tuned to.