wa g6et Member 657 Member For: 13y 8m 6d Gender: Male Location: Perth NOR Posted 26/03/12 01:41 AM Share Posted 26/03/12 01:41 AM http://www.fordxr6turbo.com/forum/topic/55584-why-tuners-hate-60lb-siemens-dekas/I read this thread about the 60lb Dekas and it implies if not scaled correctly then your fuel usage suffers. A great read, very technical though for the layman.Didn't know that this would also effect the dash economy readout.I have contacted my tuner for some advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IH8TOADS Silver Donating Members 3,618 Member For: 19y 7m 1d Gender: Male Location: OZ Posted 26/03/12 01:53 AM Share Posted 26/03/12 01:53 AM I've done a lot of stuffing around on this matter since that thread. You only see a rich condition on start-up (open loop) and when looking at your fuel trims. Closed loop fuelling cleans up this scaling issue so you dont actually experience it so too speak.To prove my point, do you reckon yours is rich wag6e? Probably not I bet.....BUT log your idle pulsewidth and I'll tell you all about your scaling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wa g6et Member 657 Member For: 13y 8m 6d Gender: Male Location: Perth NOR Posted 26/03/12 02:02 AM Share Posted 26/03/12 02:02 AM Not anymore, they were cleaned up a while ago. I need to learn how to log the data with my Xcal first. But I'm keen to know if mine are scaled correctly given my dash fuel usage is way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wa g6et Member 657 Member For: 13y 8m 6d Gender: Male Location: Perth NOR Posted 26/03/12 02:35 AM Share Posted 26/03/12 02:35 AM How does the open/closed loop thing work? When does it go to closed loop after a start up? Is it dependant on engine or water temp or is it just air temp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Wiggum Moar Powar Babeh Lifetime Members 19,323 Member For: 19y 4m 17d Gender: Male Location: Perth Posted 26/03/12 02:44 AM Share Posted 26/03/12 02:44 AM Open and closed loop in general or at idle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wa g6et Member 657 Member For: 13y 8m 6d Gender: Male Location: Perth NOR Posted 26/03/12 02:56 AM Share Posted 26/03/12 02:56 AM Both I guess. A general explanation but in particular what happens at idle and cold starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IH8TOADS Silver Donating Members 3,618 Member For: 19y 7m 1d Gender: Male Location: OZ Posted 26/03/12 05:50 AM Share Posted 26/03/12 05:50 AM Start up is open loop meaning there is no feedback and correction from the O2 sensor that targets lambda 1.0. If its a cold start the PCM gets its fuel source from the base fuel table cold and the switch over to closed loop correction is time based. The PCM calibration and ECT determine if it will be a 'cold' start. There are minor differences between PCM strategy codes also. A good way to monitor your fuelling is to datalog your fuel trims, both long term and short term as well as your pulsewidth.The switch from closed loop to open loop at operating temperature requires some criteria to be met...most important is the throttle position.I can send you a screen shot of the parameters to log but that's where I'll draw the line, I'm not interested in seeing other tuners data or sorting their issues anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wa g6et Member 657 Member For: 13y 8m 6d Gender: Male Location: Perth NOR Posted 26/03/12 10:45 AM Share Posted 26/03/12 10:45 AM Cheers that helps.A screen dump would be great, at least I'll know what to look for and what to tell my tuner.Although I'm hoping my tuner knows what to do when data logging, otherwise I should be looking for a new one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IH8TOADS Silver Donating Members 3,618 Member For: 19y 7m 1d Gender: Male Location: OZ Posted 27/03/12 02:44 PM Share Posted 27/03/12 02:44 PM Go into livelink and select the 'fuel' drop down. Select 'LTFT', 'STFT, and 'FUEL_PW_CLKTIC'. Pulsewidth is shown as Clock Ticks but don't worry about that and note that the value is not used the same across different ford strategies...but units aside, the logged value is very useful in reverse engineering the tuners injector scaling.!The LTFT is a simple way to see if the closed loop fuel correction is adding fuel or pulling fuel out to achieve a consistent lambda 1.0 AFR. A simple log at idle can tell you alot. But getting back to the topic, I have found the dekas to be a quite 'economical' injector. ID1000's flow huge yet are very good on fuel also. I have found nizpro injectors to be the thirstiest of all the commonly used items out there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotrana Member 2,586 Member For: 21y 10m 10d Gender: Male Posted 27/03/12 03:09 PM Share Posted 27/03/12 03:09 PM I've got Nizpro injectors (I didn't put them in nor tune it, bought it with them in) and notice that they seem a bit thirsty. I am quite sure the tuning is fine as the tuner is one of the best around here. A bit more soot on the tailpipe than what I would expect so I need to put the a/f ratio meter on to see what it is doing under light acceleration and cruise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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