Guest Guests Posted 06/12/03 12:09 AM Share Posted 06/12/03 12:09 AM If it didnt shake at idle Id be thking it back to the dealer cos it wouldnt be a GT otherwise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plonky The Bionic Man - half man-half titanium Member 1,766 Member For: 21y 8m 26d Location: Dodge Scat Pack Posted 06/12/03 02:16 AM Share Posted 06/12/03 02:16 AM I have to agree with Redhawk on this.The original GT was basically a warmed over Fairmont/Falcon with sports suspension, engine mods, exhaust mods etcEven XY GT's were similar.I don't like bodykits (never have really) as if the basic design of the car looks good, it looks even better if it's low and has big wheels. A good car design doesn't need the wing off a 747 on the back or a front bar that was pinched off a snow plough.The FPV GT has a link to a V8 Supercar because that is where FPV have directed their marketing strategy. Back in the '60's and '70's the performance cars that the companies sold then looked very similar to what raced on the track.FPV have gone in just the right direction without having that 'plastic' ricey look of the HSV and anything that apepars at Auto Salon (Salon.....where all the hairdresers hang around)The big thing that FPV need to fix is the strip package. If they are going to persist with the sill stripe that have to fix it now. If they are going to 'evolve' the GT then the stripes need to eolve with it as well. That would mean progressively moving the stripe package from the sill to the centre crease along the breadth of the car.There are enough visual differences both internally and externally to identify the GT.After all, an M3, M5, C43 and E55 don't resort to plastic add ons. The GT has always followed this rule because the Euro's followed the American lead in the first place. That is, low and wide with stripes and a 'Go Wing' on the boot.The journo's are entitled to their opinion but after all it is only their opinion. The thing that annoys me the most is the gimps that crave approval from journo's and the critics and demand unneccesary changes. If the GT needs any changes it is in the mechanical arena, not the visual.Before anyone says that Euro sports cars never had stripes and big wings, take a look at the RS Carrera, BMW M1, RS300 Capri etcIt is basically the Japs and car modifiers that have gone the bodykit route to emulate Group C and other Categories of Motor Sport that have them specifically designed for their racing cars.Even V8 Supercars have a mild bodykit compared to things that used to race....BMW Batmobile for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhawk ....Time to lay this fairytale aside...... Donating Members 2,657 Member For: 21y 9m 25d Gender: Male Location: In the Ferry on the River Styx, not getting out just yet! Posted 06/12/03 07:21 AM Share Posted 06/12/03 07:21 AM Dallas,I'm sorry if I offended you with the tosser comment about Bob Jennings but when journos write crap articles then they deserve to be criticised.The thing I have noticed with car mag writers, fishing mag writers, golf mag writers etc; they are all 'flavour of the month' followers. Hell if you tried every sure fired way to improve your golf swing that these guys write in the golf mags they would be dragging you off in a white suite with long arms and the car mag writers are no different if you listened to them you would never buy any car (unless it was >$100k) on these guys say so. They say anything to sell magazines , it's their job.Allan Moffat was a brilliant driver and deserved the respect of his peers and public but he could be a right tosser at times too.I liked the GT above the Turbo for many reasons as stated before and I know I will not regret my decision, and if I'm a little defensive of my choice, my right, as it is yours to defend your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercturbo Member 696 Member For: 21y 9m 17d Location: Geelong Posted 06/12/03 09:08 PM Share Posted 06/12/03 09:08 PM Dislikes: Looks like the cheaper XR8 but for the GT stripes. Road noise from the tyres. Shakes at idle. Silly starter button (you turn the key then press the button). Thirst -- mainly 20-plus litres/100km.Bob needs to research his pricing a bit better if he wants credibility, l think he's 10 grand out on his RRP for a start.20lt/100km is just bull$hit, why do jurnos publish that crap? l got around 13lt/100km out of my XR6T, and now get 14 out of the GT. How can you take a car on a 100km flog and report that economy as typical?Its articles like this that put me off reading just about anything written by a car jurno. Drive it yourself, if you like it buy it, but dont let jurnos influence your decisions. And yep, it shakes at idle, and l luv it Aggree with you Simon, almost everything about the GT awsome, "road noise, starter button and thirst", if this is all he can whinge about he better have another drive. I love this GT but would of loved it to have another 50kw, just to put it clearly ahead of the crummydoores and xr6T and xr8t, then I think I would have sold the wife to get one!!! the shake at idle is just fantastic and horny I think he's been in too many boring euro's and japs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSE2 Member 322 Member For: 21y 11m 28d Location: Tasmania Posted 06/12/03 09:32 PM Share Posted 06/12/03 09:32 PM If enough people make negative comments be it a journo or the general public then there is a point to answer. There are aspects of the BA and FPV range that concern me and the media have raised these issues. FPV can do one of two things. Take note and address these issues or stick their head back in the sand from where it came.Fords biggest problem has always been they haven't given credit to their sales competitors. With out going into details, it’s not so much the faults that are of concern but the thinking that has lead to these faults.Most people now know that the BA mind set was adapted around the Expensive Daewoo model definition. What is concerning about that is that Holden’s own research had indicated that their cliental wanted the then Ford approach to model separation. BA and VY saw a form reversal of philosophy on this point. Back in my FF days some might remember a rather large argument I had with David Flint over series 3 TE and returning the car to XR spec. I argued at the time that any backward step would always come back to bite you especially when you misjudge where the public and indeed the competition are looking for in terms of model signatures. By that I mean trinkets that define a model. They may be useful they may be a gimmick but they exist on nearly every level. Ford can't and continue not to understand this. Over the years many Tickford signature have come and gone and if they are not careful that unwanted tradition will continue. No one ever succeeds at anything by not being one step ahead of the game. You have to read the market and be proactive in all areas not just some. Expensive Daewoo have kicked Ford right where it hurts. Not only have they enjoyed a performance advantage but now we have a situation where specific features are available in cars costing 50 thousand where as the Ford equivalent cost a further 25 thousand. A feature that defines the FPV range is standard on 40 thousand dollar cars and Ford should have seen that coming. There is no way in hell the FPV range won't get a significant overall of appointments, price and performance. Series 2 VY has seen to that fact and Ford have to look two Expensive Daewoo models ahead if series 2 BA is to run a further two years. Ford has no choice to react to journo comments because the only thing that does matter, the competition, already has. This is where it doesn’t matter what you or I or the fence post thinks someone has to make the running and the rest, at some point will be forced to follow. For once, just once I would love to see Ford be proactive, set a schedule and turn the segment on its ear. The R8 has redefined this segment (again!) in terms of standard features price and performance. The warning is that there is a 7 k option sitting off to the side that signals new benchmarks in performance motoring in this country and by definition model separation. The new gimmick will be performance based that will be promoted as performance enhancing. It will evolve around smart suspension systems and AWD traction and associated controlling elements. For the first time HSV have indicated a real performance direction. FPV better have a different rulebook ready if they want to make this much of a fight. The subscription to the current one is well over due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondie Firm Member Donating Members 2,924 Member For: 22y 2m 3d Location: Adelaide Hills Posted 07/12/03 06:31 AM Share Posted 07/12/03 06:31 AM l agree with everything you said lan.However, l am afraid that Bobs article however doesnt say much that is of note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhawk ....Time to lay this fairytale aside...... Donating Members 2,657 Member For: 21y 9m 25d Gender: Male Location: In the Ferry on the River Styx, not getting out just yet! Posted 07/12/03 08:43 AM Share Posted 07/12/03 08:43 AM Fair comment HSE2 (Ian)But from what I gather the R8 is $10k dearer than the GT.Also, from what the journos say the whole package of the GT is better value for money against the Clubsports.AWD in the HSV comes at a good price.I agree with you and do hope FPV can be one step ahead of the competition and define the market rather than react to it.All in all I still hate all GT owners, and will do until I get mine :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSE2 Member 322 Member For: 21y 11m 28d Location: Tasmania Posted 07/12/03 08:47 AM Share Posted 07/12/03 08:47 AM His dislikes are pretty common and it depends how you view what is being said. When I hear comments about fuel consumption I am not thinking cost I am thinking range. A worst-case figure would give how many kms on a tank?When people say negative things about the starter button they are really commenting about or asking why a simple operation has to be made harder, involve both hands just for the sake of a signature. This needs refinement not abandonment. If the media don't raise it, it won’t get improved or at least in a time frame most of us would appreciate. Looks, for us we are never going to have trouble recognising XR8s from GTs, but again Bob isn't saying things that haven’t already been said in other quarters. For me no one ever complained about T3 being confusing other than the use of the Tickford name. I guess my point is that the TS50 in series 3 guise receive universal support from nearly all quarters where as in BA form deep down many enthusiasts would like more. FPV have a contract with Dunlop and historically Dunlop tyres do tend to be noisier than other leading tyres and don’t really have much better performance. In fact I would like to see a GT fitted with a tyre other than Dunlop go around a track. If I am right part of the Expensive Daewoo track advantage might disappear. Rasing tyre noise as an issue is worthy if it lead to Dunlop improving the product of FPV questioning the standard fitment.I honestly believe most would like to see a greater difference in the models.I know I would like to instantly recognise a Turbo from a standard XR6. Not sure about Bob but in some cases specifically the GT and not the GT-p received this appearance knock mainly for the interior. These comments are really about personal taste. I would prefer to see the GT range with say proper twin system. For me a GT with a pipe either side was a distinguishing feature back in the 70s. I think it should be today. When I read an article or an opinion from a forum member I concentrate on the bad aspects as they see it. This is the only way improvement to the breed can happen in a timely fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhawk ....Time to lay this fairytale aside...... Donating Members 2,657 Member For: 21y 9m 25d Gender: Male Location: In the Ferry on the River Styx, not getting out just yet! Posted 07/12/03 11:11 AM Share Posted 07/12/03 11:11 AM Has any auto mag done a poll on GT owners if they like the button or not?From the posts I have read the majority love it. A positive!Also a poll of GT owners concerning the vibrating at idle, another +Rather than focus on the negatives and push them as a negative, try pushing the questionable items you find in a positive light.... aim the comments at the prospective buyer of this car, not give justification or feed the egos of the lovers of the 'dark side' :lol: Fuel consumption is pretty good for highway or long country trips, therefore the range would be acceptable, and not a concern, unless your heading up from Kal to Mt Newman. :lol: Tyres are a personal choice so no matter what brand you put on a good number of people won't like them for whatever reason. You don't like the tyres either make that point known at ordering time or live with them until they need replacing.I think FPV and Ford are doing the right thing and putting money and research into what matters rather than the pretty little add-ons that makes the models more identifiable, (to who, the uneducated or disinterested???), why? The lover of the blue oval will pick the model, no matter how subtle the changes. As previously said the GT is a warmed over Falcon not a statement in fibre glass and plastic.I still hate all GT owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDAA WASP GT Member 138 Member For: 22y 2m 15d Location: Adelaide Posted 07/12/03 12:15 PM Share Posted 07/12/03 12:15 PM See good points on both sides. Some excellent discussion fellas!Like everything else criticism is only bad if you can’t learn from it.lan, I tend to agree with you on the Dunlop issue based on some of my own experience. I would be very interested to see how well an XR or GT would perform with another brand of performance tyre. I know the Dunlop’s apparently give the car the best ‘balance’ in all area’s, but I would love to see these cars on a strictly performance biased tyre like the Bridgestone’s on many HSV’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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