E85

[ratter]

Until recently we were thanked by Paul on their website for helping with the data

[IH8TOADS]

^^ yep many moons ago ratter helped get the ID data sheets, which were formatted as per Ford Racing spec, published as 4bar data. This saved us from having to run the calculation ourselves since we don't use the modifier tables in the return style setup. I think ratter was one of the first to use the ID's....certainly the first to use the 750's!

[KPM Motorsport]

The KPM data I have seen could not be correct. I would hope they have fixed it.

The ID1000 data has been available from day dot...on their website and via SCT Value Files...years before Herrod had anything to do with it.

One observation is that I have datalogged injector pulsewidth (and been sent data from around the country) on a countless number of vehicles (it's very easy to reverse engineer the battery offset value used), have sucked out tunes and have also been sent tunes from around the country and in ZERO cases....yes ZERO...have I seen the 4bar published ID injector scalars used.

The data that KPM supply is generated by our own engineer on specialised equipment.

It is now being used by many knowledgeable workshops Australia wide, with massive success.

KPM generate our data to Australian specific vehicles fuel pressures and fuels.

The data must be understood before used properly.

The reason for this is that the data supplied is generated to specific fuel pressures and fuels.

eg Ford Turbo data is supplied for a 4 Bar system. The fuel pressure for the Ford Turbos is 4 bar exactly unless the fuel system has been changed. eg Surge tank etc etc.

If this is the case the scaling data must be generated for the revised fuel pressure eg, 4.7 bar.

(KPM can generate exact data for any injector or fuel system and fuel type)

To use supplied 4 bar data on a 4.7 bar system will cause all the scaling data to be incorrect.

The other issue is that E85 has different flow characteristics to Petrol, There fore the scaling data for the same injector and fuel pressure is different.

When requesting data.

1) Exact delta fuel pressures must be known

2) Fuel being used must be stated.

Many tuners and enthusiasts ignore these facts, blame the data and revert to a poke a stick at it type tuning methods.

You cannot generate the character of an injector (scaling data) without specialised equipment and knowledge.

You can get around it by manipulation in the tuning , however this is not the correct tuning method.

You may have 75% of the tune working well , however other areas may not be 100%, eg fuel economy, cold start, hot restarts etc etc.

The supplied data also needs to used with the standard tables and especially ,requested fuel and speed density tables initially untouched and tuned thereafter accordingly. This takes training and experaince.

There are also parameters in the tuning that need to be changed accordingly to type of fuel used. eg specific gravity and Stoichometric of the fuel.

If these are not changed accordingly the vehicle will also run incorrectly. Again the injector data will be blamed.

This is an issue not only with KPM data, however data supplied by many leading reputable Injector suppliers.

Inexperainced tuners will always blame the injector data,and never bother to question there own tuning methods. Wise tuners will ask the question of the data and seek to understand it and its effects.

(The exact reason you are never seeing published data used)

This is one of the main reason that KPM are holding Fuel system information evenings Around Australia for both trade and retail.

We are also always at the end of the phone to help anyone out with data or any specifics. As with all things, contact the supplier for information if there are any doubts or we invite you to a training/info evening if you want to learn more.

Edited 19/06/14 12:25 AM by KPM Motorsport

[KPM Motorsport]

What happened to I8Toads last post. I just spent 10 mins replying?

[JETURBO]

Post it anyway dave iam watching and would like to see your reply

[IH8TOADS]

Dave, didn't do anyone any good IMO and would just lead to steering away from the original intent of the thread.

[rednose]

He offerred to chop his balls off, post the reply Dave

[IH8TOADS]

^^ lol......and eat them. Detail is everything rednose ?

[arronm]

Yeh, he ate the post instead of his balls

[KPM Motorsport]

To answer the question removed in regards to High and Low slopes and the data input.

Injectors are characterised by several varying formulas and methods.
One method creates higher low slopes and another vice versa. One is not correct over the other. The injector character remains the same in both methods.
Both KPM and DeatschWerks find that our testing produces most injectors with lower- low slopes and higher- high slopes. This is completely dependent on the individual injector and method used.
The data generated delivers the same level of end results. We have tested the various formulas and found one not to be better than another. Both read correctly by the ECU.

In regards to the ms results SCT reads in this format and HP reads in the correct format

eg SCT reads ms pw incorrectly / It should be Sec PW
HP reads correctly

I believe this is what you are meaning?