Toyota $hit Me, Something Chronic...

[sixfan]

I work in the mining industry, There is no other buisness in Australia so closely tied to Toyota's! Look at the land cruiser, Big heavy expensive and squashy inside! I'm 6'3 and I only just fit in the new (longer) toyotas, the older ones, forget it! you get lower back pain if you drive it for more than 100K's. Why can't we, as Australians produce a decent 4WD workhorse for the mining industry? Why must we pay the price of an XR6 Turbo for such a heap?? Toyota have us over a barrel and they know it. I tried to get a Nissan at the last site I worked at, you should have seen the trouble that caused! How dare you not want lancruiser!! What's the cheaper alternative? ...the Rollux! (AKA Hilux)

I spent 2 months in one in the middle of summer in central NSW with no A/C a fuel line that would block every 50 K's and those $#$% seatbelts that WILL NOT spool out of the retractor unless you are STOPPED. To top it off I only had an AM radio and while I was sweating in the car yanking on the seatbelt and waiting for the gar to stop yet again, who was on the radio? John "Oh what a feeling" Laws!!!

[Mondie]

Slightly OT.

My old man has a 12 yr old L/cruiser and he was b**ching last night because Toyota wanted 300 bucks for a new electric aerial. The joy of buying spares for a fully imported vehicle

[plonky]

I liken Toyota to a fake Rolex

There are the cheap Chinese made 150 USD fakes

The Japanese fakes with a low end Miyota automatic movement, mineral crystal, plated gold links, plated stainless steel, Water Resistant to about 10 metres, around 200 USD

The Japanese made fakes with quality Japanese Miyota movement, sapphire crystal, solid stainless steel, wrapped gold links and 10 metre Water resistance around 500 USD

and the Swiss replica Rolex with a Swiss automatic movement, sapphire crystal, solid stainless steel, wrapped gold links, exact dimensions and markings but with only a 30 metre water resistance

The cheap Chinese Rolex is like an Avalon: everyone knows it's a pretend family car and those who buy it only want transport

The low end Japanese Rolex is like a Camry or Hilux: Some people may mistake it for a decent car, it does the job that is asked of it but it is still only a Camry or Hilux

The high end Japanese Rolex is like a Landcruiser or Prado: Does the job well, people actually think they're as good as a BMW X5 or a Range Rover

The Swiss Replica Rolex is like a Lexus: Only those with the real thing (a real Rolex) know that a Lexus is but a pale (but well built) imitation of the true design such as a Mercedes S Class, a BMW 3/5 Series or a Range Rover/BMW X5 4.6

[GlennAUII]

  Cro said:

What about the VN - VS Late model camira and Toyota Lexen?

Same everything..

Any one who copies a VN Late model camira is asking to be criticised!

[Mondie]

Great summary Plonky, and very true.

It does beg the question though, who is the automotive equivalent of Rolex? BMW perhaps? Mass produced, well engineered, masters of marketing with excellent build quality and good resale?

[plonky]

  Mondie said:

Great summary Plonky, and very true.

It does beg the question though, who is the automotive equivalent of Rolex? BMW perhaps? Mass produced, well engineered, masters of marketing with excellent build quality and good resale?

The point I'm trying to make with comparing Rolex to copies, is that the German marques appear to be leading the way on a lot of fronts and naturally the market (car manufacturers) follow.

Daimler Benz, BMW, Porsche GmbH are all at the pinnacle in relation to their expertise.

I can understand where manufacturers take their cue from these three and mould and adapt their product to fit the engineering criteria but Toyota have basically become a 'Rolex Copy' manufacturer.

Look at Lexus: If there was ever a car that was just a pretend marque then it would have to be it

The LS400. A straight rip off of the Mercedes Benz S Class

The IS200/300. An even straighter rip off of the BMW 3 Series

The SC430. A fa ggots idea of what a V8 engines Mercedes SL should be like.

Toyota do some things well (just can;t think of them off the top of my head) but as the saying goes

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!

[turbotom]

  plonky said:

Toyota do some things well (just can;t think of them off the top of my head) but as the saying goes

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!

Back in 1986, I would have loved to be able to buy a brand new Corvette.

But with the exchange rate, luxury car import duties, conversion costs and lack of warranty, I could NOT justify forking out in excess of 100 big ones.

Enter the 1986 Toyota Supra. MA70 with the normally aspirated 3.0i straight 6.

Twin overhead cams, fuel injection, 5 sp box, double wishbone suspension front and rear, styling very similar to C4 Corvete but much more fuel efficient with considerable performance to satisfy my urge. I bought one for around $40k.

I have had it ever since, and would have to say its been the MOST reliable and faithful vehicle I've evert owned. (And I've had Fords and Holdens and Mitsubishis and Chevrolets and Hondas)

Like I said, 17 years (125k km) and everything still works. The body still looks modern enough to mix it with the latest cars, and the cost of ownership has been extraordinarily low. They don't put them together like that any more!

So you say they copy others..... maybe you're right. But when they put thier minds to it, they can engineer a product (in Japan) a damn sight beter than any local or US product. Especially their engines.

The latest body style Supras, released originally in 1993, has fantastic styling which I'm not sure has copied any particular other car. And these vehicles are available with a twin turboed 3.0 litre 6 which when modified, have the capability of producing 600 HP reliably with no major engine (bottom end) or transmission mods. Just more boost, bigger intercooler and bigger injectors. And they DON'T break!

There's even some really wild drag cars using the same blocks, taken out to about 3.2 litres and developing over 1000 HP !!!

Plonky, thank GOD there's a manufacturer out there who has the sense to save prototyping dollars and placing them into more meticulous and thorough development to produce a much better overall product that we mass consumers can afford.

I don't give a damn that my Tpyota looks like a Corvette. I think its a bonus.

I bought the XR6T as I love performance 6's, and I needed a ute.

Otherwise I would have bought another Toyota Supra like the one in the file below....

Supra

[Macktheknife]

Arh yes.

Have seen that one before.

You make a few good points Turbotom. I dont think anyone can seriously question the engineering ability at Toyota and there have been a few good ones as you mentioned.

In the Oz family/fleet market though, the stuff has always seemed to lack that bit of flair or excitement. If this marketing is achieving their aim then I guess we really can't hang too much sh!t on them from a business point of view.

I reckon I do have to defend the Lexus V8 engine though. Copy or not, It's a really beautiful little power plant.

IMO...............

[plonky]

Turbotom

I understand your point of view better than you understand mine

My point relates to 'copying' engineering and design advances of some of the best manufacturers in the world.

There is no doubt that Toyota, Nissan, Subaru etc have some brilliant engineering and they do very well in advancing technology that is around.

The same as Seiko and Citizen. There is NO DOUBT that Seiko/Citizen 'top end' watches are masterpieces of engineering but it all relates back to the original design parameters such as the classic Rolex Submariner, President, DateJust and the Japanese versions of the ETA automatic movements that power some of the best waches such as Rolex, Omega, Zenith, Heuer etc

The 1986 Supra was a good thing. It was obviously based upon the long nose/short tail concept made popular by the Corvette/Thunderbird etc

The Japanese engineer some very good things however they are not the be all and end all in the terms of performance. Like some manufacturers they have gone a particular route (multivalve/turbo) as opposed to others such as Ford/GM (capacity, stroke)

Ultimately it stills boils down to the capacity to fill the cylinders with as much air/fuel to make the power and torque required.

A blown and injected Hemi big block makes over 5000 hp....sort of makes the 1000hp from a Jap turbo pale into comparison

[Macktheknife]

Plonky,

Off topic, been meaning to ask you.

I've got a Gold Tudor Oyster around 74 vintage That was presented to my Dad as a work gift. Very good working order after I spent a couple of hundred on it.

And an Omega (I Think Seamaster?) but it is the electronic that I believe is not very collectable.

Another older and scratched Tissot Cronograph around 69 vintage.

Dont want to sell them but would appreciate a critique.

Macka.