Ask Ponch

[Turbo6man]

Plonky> No glee mate ... and certainly NO GLEE for anyone following your advice on this as if there is a collision I KNOW who is going to be at fault. As for the comment about Parramatta Rd. I agree, but this does not change the law and it will still result in the driver entering the road against traffic on his right being judged at fault.

It was not a driving instructor - it was an RTA Driver Examiner to whom I referred.

BTW if anyone I know has a collision under these circumstances may I refer the magistrate to your ruling/interpretation/advice? I'm sure your expert opinion in the witness box could be of some use in defending the matter. What is your serial no. again???

[aniken]

I'm with Turbo6man. I remember being taught that you should not pull out unless you have 2 clear lanes. Maybe its not the law, but it certainly seems safer.

Same guy told me about the moving forward from traffic lights when waiting to turn right. If you stayed behind the line the whole time, you might never get across at some lights. At least if you are past the stop line, you are legally entitled to complete the turn, even well after the lights have long gone red.

[plonky]

In relation to the question we will go back to basics.

A driver wants to enter a multi lane road. The intersection is not controlled by a Give Way Sign, Stop Sign, Stop Line or traffic lights.

Rule 74 applies. Therefore the driver entering the single lane road must give way to traffic on the right.

The same situation but now the road the driver wants to enter is a multi lane road. The lane he wants to enter (Lane 1 the closest lane to the kerb) is clear of traffic and there is approaching traffic in the No.2 lane that is not indicating a lane change from Lane 2 to Lane 1.

The driver entering into Lane 1 is allowed to, and if the driver in Lane 2 crosses into Lane 1 he is at fault because he has to give way to the traffic in front of him as he merges from Lane 2 into Lane 1. This is because the driver entering the road from the adjoining street into Lane 1 is now in front of the driver in Lane 2 and therefore the driver in Lane 2 must Give Way to the car in front.

This also applies if the multi lane road merges from 2 lanes into one.

Now if the same intersection was controlled by Give Way, Stop Sign/Line etc, the preceding law if the Sign/Line.

Therefore the car entering the multi lane road must first Stop the rotation of the wheels or bring the vehicle to rest before the Stop Line, then proceed into Lane 1 if there is no chance of a collision.

Once this occurs, the driver in Lane 2 must give precedence to the driver in Lane 1 because the driver in Lane 1 is now in front of the driver in Lane 2. I again refer to Rule 148.

RTA Driving Instructor? You may as well ask the cat!

[plonky]

  aniken said:

Same guy told me about the moving forward from traffic lights when waiting to turn right. If you stayed behind the line the whole time, you might never get across at some lights. At least if you are past the stop line, you are legally entitled to complete the turn, even well after the lights have long gone red.

That is true, once you pass the Stop Line you can turn through the intersection even though the light turns Red.

Your original question was about remaining behind the Stop Line before you go forward to complete the turn.

In both instances you are entitled to complete the turn if (A) the light is still green or if (B) you are past the Stop Line and the lights have gone from Amber to Red.

If you are behind the Stop Line and the lights go from Green to Amber, then you are obliged to remain behind the Stop Line until the next phase of Green Light.

[FamiliaGTRAe]

Agony Aunt Ponch,

Bonnet adornments? Legal Height? Ever seen one you wished you hadn't?

And now a really odd question, Entering a roadway which curves right, two driveways meet at the middle of the outer edge. One driveway is from a private block of flats, drivers should enter perpendicular to roadway at that point, instead they cross the older concrete driveway of NSW government property and enter parallel to the roadway.

SHould a collision occur prior to entering the actual road surface. who is at fault?

Cameron

P.S Apart from your Wonderful Kawasaki CHiPS bike, what is the best HWP vehicle you've had access to!

[Antisocial]

This is cool, I was going to suggest such a thing previously. But thought perhaps you might not appreciate me 'volunteering' you to answer everybody’s weird ass questions. Also your frequent references to porn concern me. :lol:

I have 2 questions both of which are a bit long winded...... sorry.

1. If Mr X was driving along with your brain in neutral and pulled out from a Give way/ Stop sign intersection and someone collides with him. Then no argument MrX is at fault.

But how long should the oncoming traffic have to react. That is if you started to pull out thought the better of it and the oncoming traffic had 'sufficient' opportunity to stop or change lanes (where possible) but also had brain in neutral and did not, take evasive action would they also be a candidate for a Neg driving certificate?

2. I was in the LA last month and was being driven about by a friend in Laguna Beach in his 330Ci (b@stard). Anyway he performed a dubious lane change and in the process almost collided with a stationary patrol car. Needless to say the followed us for a chat.

They were however EXTREEMLY polite, "please and sir, we need to look out for each other on the road...etc". Whilst still leaving now doubt who was in a position of authority and who was in big trouble.

Now the last time I was pulled over for a stern talking to was about 10 years ago aged about 20. And of course may times before that when on my P's, but that’s what you get for being 17 and driving a V8 in a small country town.

I do not remember the NSW police being anywhere near as polite.

Is this still the case, and do you fell this is appropriate?

[Lumpen]

OK...Work your head around this one please.

Say you are comming down the DEEP BLUE road (being in a red car...that's shaped like a line), been through the stop sign and have given way to a car at the first set of GIVE WAY signs at the Blue and Bright Green Road there as well as the second set on the GREEN/BLACK intersection.

Now when you go to join the BLACK LANE, how do you indicate?Because when you are driving it appears as though you are merging and you should indicate to your right BUT if you did that would mean you SHOULD turn right into the RED lane?

If you indicate to the left, there is a DISTINCT possibility that Joe Lunchpail may not see you whilst travelling down the GREEN ROAD and hit you...even though HE has giveway signs too!

I suppose the obvious thing to do is wait till nobody is within 500 yards, pray to you selected holy one..and GO!

Yes this may be THE WORST intersetion...EVER.and of course its about 20metres away from the Car Hater (thanks plonky, I like that term) Offices.

[BlueXR6Turbo]

I'm going to add my opinion to the Plonky vs. Turbo6man debate. I'm not a police officer, driving instructer, or any other person that would have an above average knowledge of the road rules, but here goes anyway. I'm with Plonky. I've come to this conclusion by looking up the definition of "give way" in the Australian Road Rules. "Give way" is defined as:

  Quote

give way, for a driver or pedestrian, means:

(a) if the driver or pedestrian is stopped - remain stationary until it is safe to proceed; or

(b) in any other case - slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision.

So I would argue that turning into the left lane when there is a car in the right lane is not going to cause a collision.

[BlueXR6Turbo]

The attached image is from the Australian Road Rules. I have added the red car that intends to turn right. My understanding is that a car doing a u-turn must give way to all other traffic. In this case that would mean that the green car would have to give way to the red car. If the green car was making a right turn and not a u-turn, then the red car would have to give way. The driver of the red car has no way of knowing that the green car is going to make a u-turn and not a right turn. So therefore the red car will give way thinking that the green car is making a right turn and the green car will give way because it's making a u-turn. What should legally happen in this situation?

I frequently find myself in the position of the red car!

[Falchoon]

Thanks for the roundabout tips VG! :lol:

I always thought that Canberra drivers were quite bad but after spending the weekend in Melbourne I have changed my mind. Melbourne drivers are shockers at changing lanes when there is no gap to go into, they just put their indicator on and turn the steering wheel at the same time.