Have Your Say On The Road Safety Debate

[Falchoon]

from drive.com.au

NMAA disputes Vic statistics

The National Motorists Association Australia, which is opposed to what it says is irresponsible use of speed cameras, has pointed out what it says is a hole in the Victorian Government's latest use of road toll statistics. The Government and Victoria Police say speed cameras are saving lives, but some police and authorities seem to overlook the influence of safer cars and better roads.

For the 12 months to the end of September, Victoria's road toll was down 19 percent on the previous year, but the NMAA says the toll over the past five years shows a less spectacular 1.6 percent drop, similar to the reduction experienced nationally.

The NMAA says it is an example of a government "selectively quoting statistics".

No...not the Government, they wouldn't do such a thing!

[cdm]

I heard somewhere (could be BS) that there was an increase in accidents in Victoria when 50km/h speed limit was introduced?

I read this somewhere as well, just trying to find it again...

[pym]

I have just returned from England and driving on their motorways is a joy, the speed differential between the lanes works so well, Left most lane = trucks and others below 50mph(80kph), Middle lane = cars from 50mph to 70 mph, Outside lane = 70mph plus

Our driver told us that you are booked for being over or under the speed limits for each lane.

Indicators, and headlight flashs are used to tell others of your intentions, works really well.

Hmmmm..

Firstly, I just want to correct Craig on his English motoring observations. There are no set speed limits for each lane, there never have been, and never will. The speed limit is 70mph for the motorway (ok under review to 80mph). Typically, as is the same here in Australia, you should drive in the left most lane, and only use the other lanes for over-taking, whilst within the speed limit.

Admittedly, with such congestion on our roads today, it is not always possible to return to the left most lane, however people now believe it is acceptable to drive in any lane, being lane hogs, and this can contribute to road rage.

The police (in the UK) are well within their right to book you and they will, if

- You sit in either of the 2 over-taking lanes, whilst the left lane is empty, as you are not obeying the highway code (driving without due care and attention)

- You break the 70mph speed limit regardless of which lane you are travelling.

- You are travelling below the speed limit at a speed which is likely to cause hindrance to other users, ie at 40mph.

I spent 8 years travelling 80,000 kms a year, driving from one end of the country to the other. I'm not ashamed to admit that I used to travel at speeds in excess of 100mph (160kph). Why, well this is what everyone used to do, and being there are very few cops, you would get away with it.

Also, the use of headlight flashes and indicators to try and encourage people to move out the way is banned, and the police act on this very strongly, as it amounts to intimidation...after all the road is there to share.

Anyway, back to the topic.

The use of fixed cameras can provide benefit to road safety, as long as they are installed in appropriate locations...Unfortunately, the government thinks that this means they can be installed anywhere, and as such the majority are pure revenue raisers.

Like anything we do, things are safe as long as they are done in moderation, and this includes speeding. For example you wouldn't attempt to drive at 140kmph in heavy traffic, but at 11:00pm at night, when the roads are empty, it should be fine.

Speed cameras have no intelligence, and are unable to assess the reasons why you might be breaking the speed limit, or drive over the white line at traffic lights when the light is red.

There are several solutions.

- Increase police patrols, and allow any police to book you for a traffic infingement, not just HWP, therefore trying to enfore a motoring standard.

- Better driver education, specially with regards to driving in different traffic conditions, heavy traffic, weather changes etc.

- Enforce the law, with regards to other recklass driving - This is probably a greater cause of deaths than speeding....How many surveys have been completed on recklass driving ?. Probably none, because the stupid b*stards are dead, so who would know.

-Eliminate inconsistent speed limits on the same stretch of road....50-60-50-100. For god sake, just make it 50 until you reach the 100.

- Eliminate time zones for outside schools. Just make it 40kmph all day and every day - Allows drivers to concentrate on the roads instead of their watch / clock etc, which may be wrong

Let's be realistic about it....If speeding really was an issue, we have the technology available, which can be used to limit the speed of the cars to the limit posted. All you would need is a sensor in the car, rigged to the speedo. Why aren't the car manufacturers penalised for making cars which can exceed the speed limit....do they get some cash handouts from the government ? Why doesn't the government do this ?...well they loose their revenue....

Ultimately, get rid of the camers....put more copers on the beat, start enforcing all aspects of the law, including motoring, and make our society a happier safer place...

Rant rant....Feel so much better now....

PS: We can rant and rave all we want....but our voices compared to several million $s of revenue per year....who do you really think will win ?

[hypnodoc]

Another response:

Mr Ken Boyle

e-mail: kenboyle27@hotmail.com

Dear Mr Boyle

Thank you for your letter of 3 November 2003 to the Chief Minister Jon Stanhope MLA, regarding motoring speed policies in New South Wales in the ACT..

Again, thank you for bringing your views on this matter to the Government's attention.

Yours sincerely

Greg Friedewald

Chief of Staff

... still waiting for written response.

All of the politicians lie to all of the people all of the time

The greater part of a nation will more easily fall victim to a to big than what it will to a small one. Adolf Hitler circa 1940

Speed Kills, My Ar@e

[hypnodoc]

This is the official response from my initial letter.

Comments encouraged.

Scum, scum, scum. Liars,liars,liars.

Still what more would you expect

[hypnodoc]

Greg Friedewald

All of the politicians lie to all of the people all of the time

The greater part of a nation will more easily fall victim to a to big than what it will to a small one. Adolf Hitler circa 1940

Speed Kills, My Ar@e

Correction on earlier post.

The greater part of a nation will more easily fall victim to a big lie, than what it will to a small one. Aldolf Hitler circa 1940

They keep us focussed on speed cameras, hoping that we won't notice them continuing to sell whats left of the farm.

Third world dictatorship anybody?

[cdm]

I heard somewhere (could be BS) that there was an increase in accidents in Victoria when 50km/h speed limit was introduced?

Found it. Its in relation to the 50km/h limit in SA. (p136, MOTOR, Dec 2003)

"Up to February 28, road deaths in SA for the year stood at 24 - the same as 2002. In the first six months of the 50km/h limit, total road deaths rose by 20.5 percent - 45.2 percent in urban areas."

"The official SA government statistics for the years 1995 to 2002 inclusive show that excessive speed was the "primary apparent error" in less than 1 percent of all road crashes. In fact, at 0.88 percent it ranks 15th as a cause, with inattention the main culprit at 41.88 percent, followed by failure to give way (12.72 percent) and reversing without due care (11.1 percent). "

Hmmmm....I wonder why motorists have suddenly become so inattentive.....could it be because everyone has to stare at the bloody speedo now instead of scanning the road? I wonder....

[aniken]

Increase patrols to reduce road toll: MP

By Alex Mitchell, State Political Editor

December 7, 2003

The most practical way of reducing the state's road toll was to increase the number of police with the highway patrol, State Parliament's Staysafe Committee chairman Paul Gibson said yesterday.

He said the strength of the highway patrol was down from 1150 in the 1980s to about 950.

He also said that officers with the highway patrol were being diverted to guard duties, prison escort and general duties.

"We should not be having highway police re-employed elsewhere when the road toll for the year is over 500 and heading for 550," he said.

"We need specialised, full-time units directing their full attention at minimising road deaths.

"In my opinion, policing the road is the greatest single deterrent to accidents."

Mr Gibson, the Labor MP for Blacktown, criticised the Roads and Traffic Authority (RTA), saying it had not done enough for road safety and that Victoria was doing better than NSW.

"There are more deaths on the roads than from all the recent wars we have been involved in, yet we don't seem capable of putting the same resources into saving lives at home," he said.

He called for a full review of highway patrol numbers and the way the service was functioning.

Mr Gibson said more than $2 billion had been spent on rebuilding the Pacific Highway in the past 10 years, with about one-third now a divided carriageway.

"While the length of the divided carriageway has increased dramatically, there hasn't been a corresponding drop in road deaths.

"Why not? We have to ask why the road toll hasn't dropped as the road has improved."

In October, Roads Minister Carl Scully asked the RTA to conduct a study of the coastal highway's road toll. It is due early next year.

Mr Gibson also revealed an unpublished survey of truck drivers' behaviour, carried out three years ago, which showed they broke speed limits and drove for more hours than they were legally entitled.

This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/06/...0625579279.html

[BA_Turbs]

- Increase police patrols, and allow any police to book you for a traffic infingement, not just HWP, therefore trying to enfore a motoring standard.

In Victoria, I don't know about other states, but it would be ridiculous if it were different, all police CAN carry out traffic enforcement.

The reason you get pulled over by the TMU (Vic HWP) is because they are there specifically for that purpose. Imagine if you can hear your neighbor bashing his wife but the police can't come because they have stopped a motorist for speeding. General duties police, at least where I work, do not even get close to pulling over cars. Between the domestics, cold burgs, drunks, kids causing trouble, checking that old ladies that haven't been seen in a week aren't dead in the loungeroom, and all too often, dealing with psych patients that are having episodes in the community, plus 100 other things, pulling over cars just doesn't even come into it.

Not having a go at you, just explaining why it is rare to be pulled over by the Divisional Van or non-TMU sedan.

As far as the road safety issue. The biggest problem IMHO, as has been raised a couple of times, is people have no idea how to DRIVE. The Victorian Government may as well disband the licencing section of VicRoads and everyone gets a free licence that they can cut out of their CornFlakes box.

Teenagers are taught how to pass a test, then those same young people hit the road in their V8 Commodore, or whatever, having just got their licence in a 10 year old Mazda 121, never driven before with 400dB of Trance music pumping and 4 pissed mates in the car, dropping burnouts, go everywhere at Mach 5 and the government wonders why people die?

Before a licence is issued, people should do a mandatory defensive driver course, but it must be done carefully so young drivers don't walk away feeling more invincible than before. A tour of something like the Alfred Hospital trauma ward so budding young drivers can see what can happen and the guy in the bed with the steel rods in his spine thought HE was a good driver too.

I better wind this down before my rant hits fury pitch. Oh, and I don't want to sound like I am P-Plate bagging, I'm only 22, so it wasn't that long ago I was there myself.

Excellent idea for a thread though.

Oh, and in two short years as one of the Queen's men, I have never issued a speeding ticket, just copped (pardon pun) a couple myself.

[GOLDIE]

On aca tonight they had another story on speed camera's the high ranking police officer was interviewed and even when the figures where stated he said the reduction in road was due to the speed camera's but the figures showed that since the camera's where introduced the toll had not changed. but the fines had increased and revenue collected had risen.

Also the adr rules state that a vechile speedo is allowed a ten percent error rate but the guy interviewed was fined for 4 k's over the 60 limit which would state that the vic govt does not believe in the adr rules and only likes lining it pockets.

Ian