Have Your Say On The Road Safety Debate

[plonky]

This is the official response from my initial letter.

Comments encouraged.

Dear Mr Ken Boyle

Thank you for your letter of encouragement to my Government. Fixed speed cameras have millions of benefits which my Government use to buy elections with by way of promises to marginal (but noisy) groups.

Be rest assured that fixed speed cameras will be highlighted the next time some troublesome media type asks a question without notice.

As far as the 50kmh Urban Speed Limit, I can immediately abrogate my responsibility as the Transport Minister and point you in the direction of the NSW RTA. You can direct any disparaging comment towards them.

In summary, your question can be fobbed off by me because you're not the leader of a Trade Union, leader of a Welfare Organisation or a big wheel in the print and visual media.

You are just a taxpaying voter who happens to drive a car which is now a great source of indiscriminate revenue, so therefore your impudence is rewarded with a Government Minister's Code of Honour

Have a great day

Sincerely

Jack B Nimble

Transport Minister

[KEN 24T]

You got that too then Plonky ...

[ducatijb]

The report shows that during the first 21 months of 50km/h speed limits, there was an estimated reduction in the risk of being involved in a reported accident of 25.3 per cent

Geez I'd like to know who done the estimating

[sixfan]

I had alread printed out the report he was reffering to and as a proffesional involved in writing and editing scientific papers, I can assure you that the statistics used in this report cannot be validated.

they do not:

tell us the number of people asked:

Vital to analyse ANY statistics properly, you must report your sample size.

for the questionare on the 50K limit; Tell us where and how they were approched:

If you door knocked at 10am during a week day in an old folks home, you will not be getting a representitive sample of the population FACT.

I could go on, in fact I intend to. I'm reading it page by page and I'll submit it with my comments to the appropriate clown responsible for explanation.

I have written and presented scientific papers in the past and if I submitted a work of this standard, I'd be laughed out of my job!!

It's a discrace! Do they really think we're all DUMB???

P.S Plonky, Very funny.

Pity it's true.

[Falchoon]

I heard somewhere (could be BS) that there was an increase in accidents in Victoria when 50km/h speed limit was introduced?

[Adam]

I heard somewhere (could be BS) that there was an increase in accidents in Victoria when 50km/h speed limit was introduced?

That wouldn't surprise me, after all here in VIC we have speed cameras that can book a trucks trailer for going faster than the truck that's towing it!

[hambo_12]

Very silly stuff indeed. Should really get the system bug free before implementing it. Just creates more trouble than its worth IMO. I wonder how much money the government have spent on the speed cameras only still to find that the system cant be relied on....

[Adam]

And what makes it even more interesting is that the manufacturer of the cameras is now in receivership, I wonder why!

[Falchoon]

Industry stirs safety debate

By Toby Hagon

The Age

Tuesday November 25 2003

Road safety is a hotter issue than ever as car makers have their say. Toby Hagon reports.

As the heads of many car makers this week broke their silence on the Government's controversial road safety campaign, the debate about how to reduce fatalities moved into top gear.

The bosses of Ford, Holden, Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Mazda questioned the emphasis on speeding while calling for improvements to driver training.

"I'm not sure the public has a real understanding of the current Government's approach to road safety beyond adding more speed cameras," says Mazda Australia managing director Malcolm Gough.

"The focus on speed cameras is far too narrow and one that will fail, given the complexities of this issue."

The managing director of Mercedes-Benz Australia, Horst von Sanden, is just as critical.

"People are not learning to assess their driving speed based on their skills, condition of their car or the quality of the road. Instead, they blindly obey a number posted on the side of the road or alternatively use their energy trying to avoid a speed camera," says von Sanden, who adds that developments made to car safety have not been matched by improvements to the roads.

Porsche Australia managing director Michael Winkler says current initiatives leave a "bad taste", and BMW Australia managing director Franz Sauter says the focus on speed is "punitive" and "one-dimensional".

The Transport Accident Commission, however, has joined the Victoria Police in criticising the car makers' views on safety.

"Speeding will continue to be a very significant issue in terms of reducing trauma, but it's not the only issue," says David Healy, the general manager of road safety for the TAC. "In many cases speed may not have been the cause of the crash but it will contribute to the outcome."

Superintendent Peter Keogh, from the Victoria Police traffic support division, says the car makers' observations are timely, following the Government's comments about the use of speed in automotive advertising.

"There's no necessity to advertise speed when you advertise cars," he says.

"The faster a person drives ... when involved in a collision, the more likelihood they are to suffer serious injury or death."

Professor Brian Fildes, from the Monash University Accident Research Centre, says the automotive executives raise some valid points but he doesn't agree with everything.

"It doesn't surprise me that the whole issue of speed has a fairly mixed response by the community," says Fildes. "It's a complex issue - that bit is right. But the real issue is that the faster people collide, the greater the injuries. The simple physics can't be ignored."

The car makers, whose views are shared by many in the automotive industry, claim that driver training is the key to reducing injuries and fatalities. "It is very hard to understand why a country with such a high tertiary-educated population ... doesn't properly educate (young drivers) for traffic and driving cars," says Expensive Daewoo chairman and managing director Peter Hanenberger. "We are in a very, very critical phase here."

Hanenberger recommends authorities do more research and discuss the issues with experts in Europe, who, he believes, have a much better approach to road safety.

The general manager of road safety at VicRoads, Eric Howard, agrees there is room for improvement in driver training.

"The focus on driver training is good ... but the real issue is the right way to go about it," he says.

"There's nothing else around the world that's been shown to be effective."

Ford boss Geoff Polites says something drastic has to be done about driver training. "Instead of teaching people to steer, we need to teach people to drive," he says. "And we need to teach people the real issues ... of controlling a car. It's about defensive-driver training, not advanced driver training."

Polites also calls for a more thorough analysis of road safety statistics.

"The statistics (on road safety) are not all that transparent," says Polites.

"There has really been no debate about the exact constituents of that (road toll) number," he says.

Healy agrees analysis is important but denies there is a lack of transparency.

"I don't think there's an unfairness in the way the figures are presented because speed is such a big contributor," says Healy.

Road safety: what the experts say

"If we keep (enforcement) at an artificial level with a very badly educated level of driving population I do not see how you can balance (road safety)."

Peter Hanenberger -- Chairman and managing director, Holden

"No company condones speeding or unsafe driving but my concern is that there is an over-emphasis on speed and perhaps neglect of some of the other equally or more significant issues."

Geoff Polites -- President, Ford

"The real challenge is to develop a climate in which drivers have the ability to assess the right speed for any given situation."

Horst von Sanden -- Managing director, Mercedes-Benz

"Speed cameras alone are a one-dimensional, punitive approach (to road safety)."

Dr Franz Sauter -- Managing director, BMW

"The focus on speed cameras is far too narrow and one that will fail given the complexities of this issue."

Malcolm Gough -- Managing director, Mazda

"The whole issue of focussing so much on the enforcement side makes a nation of speedo watchers and gives people the false impression they will be safe."

Michael Winkler -- Managing director, Porsche

"Since we've reduced the speed threshold there's been a remarkable decline in the behaviour of most people. There is much more going on (with road safety) that certainly doesn't focus on speed."

Superintendent Peter Keogh -- Traffic support division, Victoria Police

"The focus on driver training is good. The real issue is the right way to go about it. There's nothing else around the world that's been shown to be effective."

Eric Howard -- General manager of road safety, VicRoads

"In many cases speed may not have been the cause of the crash but it will contribute to the outcome."

David Healy -- General manager of road safety, TAC

"The real issue is that the faster people collide the greater the injuries. The simple physics can't be ignored."

Professor Brian Fildes -- Monash University Accident Research Centre

[Macktheknife]

Good god.

I'm bloody exhausted just reading that. Not because it is hard to fathom, simply because it is so infuriatingly mind numbing.

Insurection. Bloody rebellion. Civil unrest.....Controlled of course.

that's what happens when governments are allowed to run amuck and rule us to save ourselves.

If it continues, sorry we (Including myself) only have ourselves to blame.