Fg F6 Stalling Problem

[ergun7]

hey guys,

ive been having the same problem with my bf xr6. ive taken it to 2 ford dealers and they have claimed that they have fixed it, however nothings changed, it keeps stalling when the car is warm. on cold starts I always get a perfect start.

ford has

-checked and tested complete system

-checked ignition

-checked computer

-checked coil packs

-rescanned system several times

-carbon build up in the cylinder head

-carried out upper cylinder head clean

-clean and adjust throttle body.

ive recently put a lpg tank in the car but the problem was there before the lpg was installed. do I need to take the car to a tuner or back to ford and obviously what are your thoughts.

cheers

[Corzza]

Guys could it be a ZF issue?

Maybe the box needs the new software in it or something?

[turbotrana]

It could be a ZF issue. I have the FG stalling. I put extra earthing straps on the car and it did help but its still there.

I have got HPtuners software and have been trying to make changes to help it to no avail yet. There was also another tuner who tried to fix it before me.

I bumped idle up to 750rpm and it will still do it. Revs will pull down to about 400rpm then recover with a few hunts. So raising revs wont solve this one.

I think its the Ford Tune either engine or trans but something we cant get access to via Hptuners or SCT.

But it is something we need to find a solution to. Mine is a Jan 09 G6e Turbo.

If anyone in Perth has a late 08 or early 09 FG Turbo that I can download a stock tune please email. I want to put a stock tune in my car with standard injectors to work on this problem further. I just want to go thru a process of elimination now. I wont hurt your car. Its just a 3 min download.

Edited 10/10/12 01:09 PM by turbotrana

[Rubberman]

Hello gentlemen, allow me to start by saying im no mechanic & im not sure if this is appropriate, but maybe it might give you another idea or option ??? I have had the same problem but with my motorcycle its 2000 Suzuki TLR ( the engine only had 25 thousand k's on it ) cold start no problem once to operating temp and im off the throttle ie coming to a set of traffic lights or idle. The revs would drop and then the engine would cut out, but it then would start straight away with a single push of the start button, no error codes nothing ????? After nearly 9 months of dyno tunning & replacing various parts & tolerence checks + electrical , it turned out I had some issue with wear inside the throttle body alloy casting, once the engine is hot one of the butterflys lost its tension ( sorry as im not sure what to call it ) it would close causing the engine to shut down.

When my Mechanic showed me the problem visually ( again sorry if I dont explain myself well ) he put both alloy throttle bodys ( 1 borrowed ) side by side he then asked me to, by hand rotate the Actuator ??? forward comparing the 2 throttle bodys my original started off with resistance then as I continued moving the Actuator forward it lost all tension,causing the butterfly to close continuing forward it would open again and give me tension all the way to fully open.

I hope this helps in some way maybe leading to other possible sollutions, I just thought id share my experience with a similar fault ... Cheers Mike

[turbotrana]

I think I have a solution. Its all about the spark advance tables. I reduced the spark in the low load /low rpm areas to 20 degrees and no stall. Some areas of the map had 50 degrees advance at very low idle rpm/low load and the advance map looks nothing like what I am used to. The engine does not usually get to these mapping points but in some circumstances it may do and I think it then triggers a feed back.

I think Ford may have put alot of advance in these areas of the map to make the 3 to 2 shift in the ZF a bit softer as I notice its a little harsher now with less advance.

This may be a bit hard for most to understand but a tuner should be able to make sense of it.

There may be other issues in the programming that cant be seen as HpTuners only shows so much of the tune but this has definately stopped it stalling.

Edited 11/10/12 01:11 PM by turbotrana

[joe@cms]

IMO, its got to do with the fuel trims, we did some liquid sequensial injection fit ups on FG's we found & ''not all of them did it'', that the ECU ran the mixtures lean at idle which the LGI injectors emulated the duty cylce of the petrol injector & the problem transferred it self when on lpg...

with testing using live data & talking to obital gas systems in sydney found that there testing concered with what we found...... & buy pulling timing out, sure will mask it but your not hitting the root of the problem, once you decide to get it tuned, your tuner of choice will have the ability to rectify it as he can play with the scales,

joe

[turbotrana]

Yes it may have something to do with fueling and as I have seen it go lean and start hunting for no apparent reason as you said . Without having full access to all maps its hard to know exactly what it going on.

However having anywhere from 37 to 50 degrees advance in and around the 0.15 load/600rpm mapping point does not make sense to me. The way it is tuned is that if the fueling is out a bit, the timing map will not promote idle stability but will make idle stability worse.

But then again there are alot of things done for emissions which may required the timing to be done in this way.

In any case it seems to have given a solid idle.

Edited 12/10/12 12:26 AM by turbotrana

[joe@cms]

that's a huge variation to be honest I've never seen that sort of timing @ idle, is there something else happening that the ecu is over compinsating for ??? & dont forget that idle can be effected buy the cams so logging is the only way to find things...... also even a weaping inlet manifod gasket will give you greef

[turbotrana]

Something abnormal is going on. I can change the spark on cruise and acceleration via MBT and Borderline tables any which way and you will see it via datalogging. Even decelleration spark all fits in with what it should be doing.

However idle spark is not where I think it should be at nor can I change it via HpTuner in the tables - Idle spark in Drive/Neutral.

As soon as you hit idle and VSS is zero, idle drops to around 0 degrees (-4 degrees to +4 on average) but then jumps also up to whatever is in the MBT/borderline tables(I adjust both the same) and seems to hunt between two tables at times.

Idle advance in the stock table is 60 degrees and if I change it, no difference. Neither do I understand why it is at 60.

So idle spark being abnormally low is maybe the problem and causes the idle fluctuations at it goes from high to low advance at idle.

If anyone can tell me what idle spark they get and if they can command idle spark with HP tuners that would help a little.

[FGX 40T]

I have exactly the same issue with my 2009 FG XR6 T. The car is pretty stock - only larger injectors and stage 1 pipe kit. The injectors are the FG F6 310 bosch factory injectors. The turner copied the stock tables from an F6 program in relation to the injectors and pasted them into the custom program. The car never stalled prior to the install of the new injectors but stalls now (when you are coming to a full stop - only periodically as stated above). The tuner has adjusted the idle in drive - added I think 2% more air. The car seemed to drive fine - then the stalling returned. I think there must be an issue with the injector programming for the FG F6 - but where I have no idea. I have emailed my tuner who is investigating. The car does also seem to hunt at idle in drive - never did before. Any tuners out there have any ideas or remedies? This is a very frustrating problem.

Edited 15/10/12 08:44 AM by FG09T