280kw Xr6 Turbo

[aaronmihe]

Considering how accurate Motor where 12 months ago (September 2002) with their XR6T tinfo I have zero faith in their newest predictaion being closed to right. Either way it's not going to do resale any harm....

A.

[HSE2]

Hello everyone.

Well this issue of Motor Mag ended a week of disappointment where Ford failed to deliver. Bathurst, the SMS and now this latest FPV review.

Lets face some hard cold truths. Straight-line performance is important, as it is the only definitive criteria that are listed in publications. Sure we get drive impressions but with this publication they are worth jack. Last week we were being told the GT brakes weren't up to the job, this week they are and so on and so on. The XR8 times in PCOTY looked like a re run of the original test on release. Flick to the back of the November issue and the XR8 is now listed at 14.3 something down from the 14.4. When did that happen - listed as Oct 03. WTF? Did they use the wrong figures in PCOTY? Mate G teched his auto XR8 on the weekend and came up with 14.1 @ 169.6 kph!

It was Ford that said, "We won't have sand kicked in our face again"

Well call me old fashioned but all that sand continues to look like it is in close proximity. That R8 time is outstanding, but worse is the fact that Expensive Daewoo can roll out these models one after the other because they have been handing out the same old crap and the consumers have lapped it up. Model releases with stuff all investment. It must stuff resale and I applaud Ford for at least trying to build stability into the market. But one can't ignore the stimulation Holden’s 12 month policy has in place.

I understand that the small car and the territory are important to the overall plan of Ford. If that plan fails we won't have the GTHO to worry about, but to come out at the biggest show of the year and in a year where we are celebrating Fords Birthday, to have nothing sends two messages to the public. 1) We don’t have the ability to market more than one product at anyone time and 2) if we did, we don't have the engineering nous to make it happen. SMS was dropping the ball and the momentum. Even bringing out a GT40 would have been something. People would have been asking about the engine and taking in the fact that Ford can build a car capable of super car performance. People would have taken this car to mean something about the GTHO even if that isn’t wasn’t the case. Thinking about the Ford product is what show goers need to come away with. Ford can’t do it and Expensive Daewoo can.

The Coupe 4 is an outstanding concept and full credit should do to Expensive Daewoo for making that happen along side the Cross8 project. Gee fulfilling two engineering projects in tandem realising its full potential. Now there is a refreshing thought.

FPV- The manual driveline in any BOSS equipped car is a disgrace. I have no idea why the mainstream media have not reported on this fact but Ford can think them selves lucky. In 5 years there has been no engineering answer to the lack of refinement and that includes a new clutch, gearbox and diff assembly. To me that really question the "total package" proclamation especially when it is daily driving where this fault shows up.

[Adam]

FPV- The manual driveline in any BOSS equipped car is a disgrace. I have no idea why the mainstream media have not reported on this fact but Ford can think them selves lucky. In 5 years there has been no engineering answer to the lack of refinement and that includes a new clutch, gearbox and diff assembly. To me that really question the "total package" proclamation especially when it is daily driving where this fault shows up.

One guy says the drive line is crap, every report I've ever read suggests other wise. Hmmm, who's opinion will I believe?

[HSE2]

FPV- The manual driveline in any BOSS equipped car is a disgrace. I have no idea why the mainstream media have not reported on this fact but Ford can think them selves lucky. In 5 years there has been no engineering answer to the lack of refinement and that includes a new clutch, gearbox and diff assembly. To me that really question the "total package" proclamation especially when it is daily driving where this fault shows up.

One guy says the drive line is crap, every report I've ever read suggests other wise. Hmmm, who's opinion will I believe?

I don't give a flying toss who you believe, but it is a well-known fact so I suggest you start searching other forums for the truth.

You are looking for backlash from the drive shaft and general refinement in shifting gear under normal driving. This was evident on IRS cars of the Au series. Commonly miss diagnosed as a diff problem, which was another issue completely. However to Fords credit the BTR diff was being handed out like plastic critters from a cornflake packet. There are 4 oil additives that I know of and failing that you get a new diff.

The same problem appears to be in the BA model as well. On top of this third gear in the tremec has a peculiar vibration feed back at certain speeds. Of the 4 cars I have driven the gearshift can be seen to vibrate. On the worst car I have read about the vibration actually comes back up through the firewall.

In my opinion as was the case with my car the clutch is partly to blame. If you get a good T5 box in a turbo it is a better car to drive. However I hear the worse of the turbo cars are about on par with earlier AU models. IMO the clutch of the Boss cars is also part of the problem. According to service section an aftermarket pressure plate is required to fix the problem. Yes that is right Ford, service reckons it can’t be adjusted or fixed. I have great difficulty in believing this considering mine was the same but that is what they think. Apart from being very light in actuation feel the complete take up is late in the pedal travel. Depending on your seating position I.e. how bent your leg is, it will impact on the control you have over the clutch release. With the T5 box in my XR8 the clutch is fully released close to the floor. Easy to change gears smoothly no matter what mode of driving effort you are in. However I found the GT/XR8 clutch nearly impossible to control to eliminate driveline shunt because my leg was in no mans land in the pedal travel.

Some people are blaming the fly by wire throttle, in that it lacks the directness needed to eliminate bad gear changes. I have one car that uses fly by wire and I don't think this is the problem but there are plenty of people saying it might be.

Fact is you can drive around the problem or 90% of it. Don't be lazy with the left foot and you should be ok, but women struggle with it in particular because they don't understand the need to have a different technique to driving a car. I agree you shouldn’t.

So there you have it like it or not. You do the research and see what you come up with.

[Adam]

OK I'm not criticising you anymore. There are some people with problems, as with anything and everything but are you saying in your case that the driveline is no good because it doesn't suit the way you drive. Just looking for clarification, don't me!

[HSE2]

Well I didn't take your reply as criticism so if you meant it as such I should have replied with far more force. If I were you I would be asking the same questions because I know I am, but a forum is about expressing one’s opinion. The point being,- to question that opinion. A more important question is have you driven a manual BA Xr8 or manual BA GT? I would advise all people to do this where as I would have no problem recommending the auto to anyone.

I think of all members on forums are car enthusiasts, and I write thinking what I say is a recommendation to a friend. I wouldn't recommend a manual to a friend, but like I have said this has been the way since 98 with IRS Fords. Only you can make that decision. Many people know about it but are prepared to live with it. My point is that Ford like to sit on their bum and claim total performance while neglecting the one aspect that makes a performance car what it is! Have we lost the ability to make a great manual transmission? If the effort was made on the manual as it has been with the Auto there would be little to complain about.

You need to work out for yourself if this problem is something you can live with. I am 100% certain most people will find an issue. The question will be if it is something they are prepared to live with given that the auto is so much better. Yes but an auto isn't a performance car. I agree.

The point you make is the point I don't understand myself. I lent my car out to 2 BA XR8 owners and we all agreed that my car was the better car to drive in this particular regard. One owner went as far as saying that if his" AU had my drive train he wouldn't hate manuals like he does now". As god is my witness that is the honest truth and it is a powerful statement. He went for an auto for this reason. His brother has a manual BA and in his opinion his car is better than the EL he came from but short of my AU.

So I guess it comes down to where you are coming from in order to realise if the driveline is an issue or not. The points everyone realised was my clutch operation. That was the single biggest point everyone agreed on.

So I had to tell the dealership I was going to pass on the BA XR8. They responded with, a complete lack of surprise. “Yes my wife has difficulty” and “yes we have lost a couple of sales” and “some owners are now complaining”. I have no idea if they are or were telling me the truth, but I started a thread or two around the net to find out how far spread this issue is. I was shocked at the result.

Is it the way I drive? Could be although I doubt it. Seems to be an issue with too many others. You buy a manual because you enjoy changing gears. If that process is less than enjoyable then the reasoning behind that purchase decision is questionable. The media are commenting on the box and they are correct. It is generally a smoother unit, much better than 90% of T5 units, but the silence on the other points is puzzling. The AU drama was kept quite so maybe they are continuing on. I can’t answer that. If you worry about the smoothness of the change then be prepared to put some work in learning to drive the BOSS cars. You can drive around it, but you are in effect riding the clutch. You have to make sure that you have forward thrust on the driveline on take up. That will eliminate the majority of the driveline issues. The box, some people are living with the vibration, I know I would but the clutch I would change. I see no justification in spending 60 plus on a car where you have to mentally adjust the way you drive it. I drive a lot of cars so getting in and out of cars is part of my life.

[Adam]

Very interesting! Like you I hadn't heard of any issues with the V8's driveline (until now). I would think something as serious as that would be a well known fact, take the comments about the T5 in the XR6T for example. Maybe they both aren't much good, (I don't know) it's only when they're compared against each other the V8's driveline seems fine.

[BrentS]

Agree it was a fantastic time that the R8 posted, also in terms of rolling-starts as well.

Its quite interesting reading all the posts here in terms of the performance aspects. I remember a good 6-9 months or so ago when the XR6T started getting around that everyone on this forum was wrapped about finally being able to dish it up to the SS Commodores, WRX's etc. Look at how many threads are written about increasing the performance of the T...there are heaps of them because its a bloody important part of any sporting car. However, as soon as the opposition wheel out a car that's faster, we quote the old phrase "Well, its not just 0-100 times that matter. It's how it drives." Hmmmmm............an each-way bet maybe???

Make no mistake, I'd love a GT, and if I had the cash today, I'd have one in my driveway. End of story. However, whilst Ford are arguably closer than they've been for many years in the performance car stakes, I still reckon there's a bit too much back-slapping and self-congratulation going on at Ford, and that tends to be borne-out in the arrogant attitude of many dealers (whom I think need reminding that they're not selling BMW M5s or AMG Mercs).

Expensive Daewoo have perfected the art of doing just enough to maintain their bragging rights of their product down at the pub, and the performance of the new CLubbie is case in point.............no major changes, and still arguably a flawed product in many ways, but a bit quicker and just enough to take the wind from Ford's sails.

Ford have a great car in the BA, but I'll be bloody disappointed if the series II brings no more than a new paint colour and different colour indicator lenses or whatever. Ford need to push their product development, and keep pushing it damn hard!

Brent.

[Adam]

I think Ford is banking on people realising that their proformance cars are more about the total package rather than who gets down the road a bit quicker, Ford have sacraficed a bit of speed to gained more driving quality and comfort. Unfortunately to a lot of people quicker means better!

[Mondie]

FPV- The manual driveline in any BOSS equipped car is a disgrace. I have no idea why the mainstream media have not reported on this fact but Ford can think them selves lucky. In 5 years there has been no engineering answer to the lack of refinement and that includes a new clutch, gearbox and diff assembly. To me that really question the "total package" proclamation especially when it is daily driving where this fault shows up.

One guy says the drive line is crap, every report I've ever read suggests other wise. Hmmm, who's opinion will I believe?

HSE2 is correct, the driveline shunt in our GT is disappointing. While probably not quite as bad as our XR6T, it does spoil an otherwise awesome car.

This problem hasnt been written up as much as it was in the reviews of the T3, where many articles l read commented on the "Flintstones" driveline. Wouldnt be suprised if Ford spec the drivelines of the FPV's given to the jurno's to avoid bad press. Afterall have you ever seen a review of an XR that didnt have premium brakes?