Xcal 1 Going Offline Discussion

[ratter]

we all know that the xcal 1 could be retuned over and over up until the lock out and now we have people complaining about it's main feature being shut off, but I have just checked Capa's advert for the box and there is no mention of retuning over and over like we have been doing.

I believe they could argue that that this feature was not it's main function but just a by product of what was possible

CAPA : Ford Flash Tuner

Has any one got an advert showing that retuning the box was it's main function?

I have checked old SCT adds etc and can not find anything re retuning the car, only mentions about having up to 3 custom tunes in the box

[xhxrsix]

seems like the 6sp auto hardware was harder to develop than expected... this must have looked like the easiest way to make $$$

can just imagine it...

"hey guys, we turned off the xcal1 so it no longer has the ability to re-tune your car, you will have to fork out $495 for an xcal3. Oh and by the way will should have enough money to finish that 6sp auto software soon" lol

I can see that stuff wears out and gets old, or if they stop selling xcal1's and maybe don't allow anyone to get there car tuned on an xcal1 if it isn't already.. but to cut them off all together sucks.

I don't care whose fault it is or if herrod is giving us '$200' off, its still going to cost $500 for nothing.

[genebaby]

seems like the 6sp auto hardware was harder to develop than expected... this must have looked like the easiest way to make $$

can just imagine it...

"hey guys, we turned off the xcal1 so it no longer has the ability to re-tune your car, you will have to fork out $495 for an xcal3. Oh and by the way will should have enough money to finish that 6sp auto software soon" lol

I can see that stuff wears out and gets old, or if they stop selling xcal1's and maybe don't allow anyone to get there car tuned on an xcal1 if it isn't already.. but to cut them off all together sucks.

I don't care whose fault it is or if herrod is giving us '$200' off, its still going to cost $500 for nothing.

$500, where are you getting that from? The units are $795, so $595 after cashback. Maybe $605 after postage to send the old one away.

we all know that the xcal 1 could be retuned over and over up until the lock out and now we have people complaining about it's main feature being shut off, but I have just checked Capa's advert for the box and there is no mention of retuning over and over like we have been doing.

I believe they could argue that that this feature was not it's main function but just a by product of what was possible

CAPA : Ford Flash Tuner

Has any one got an advert showing that retuning the box was it's main function?

I have checked old SCT adds etc and can not find anything re retuning the car, only mentions about having up to 3 custom tunes in the box

It's main feature is to be a TUNING device, not that it could support five cars before being locked out, that was something SCT put in, which they didn't have to but it served as a security function for them. Your argument again has no merit because just like Theo you are defending the indefensible.

Now it cannot take a tune, so it's dead and useless, can't do what it was advertised to do.

Yes it has my current tune in it, but my car came with a tune from Ford and at some stage I wanted to fix it, and I may want to do that again, which is why I bought this box.

[ratter]

Not arguing at all, but asking a question, you seem to be the expert on all things SCT lately, I asked a question you being full of answers, can you point me to the add.

Your box took a tune so looking at Capa's add, it did what it was supposed to do.

[genebaby]

Ratter, I'm sorry I don't know your full/real name, but c'mon. Who would have bought this box if it could only take a tune once? I wouldn't have paid $10 for it let alone $1300.

Can you please show me where it said we couldn't tune more than once and that they would be shutting it off in the future?

[tab]

Can sort-of see what you're getting at Ratter, but is a mute point IMHO

Regardless this is mentioned...

C: The flash tuner can be changed over to a new vehicle, it must be cleared using software available from CAPA. This process can only be performed 5 times. Then it must go back to SCT / USA for a Reset.

If an owner of a Xcal1, used on one vehicle, buys a new vehicle and comes to you or any other tuner tomorrow can that be done?

What there is no mention of is expiry or a sunset clause as such. That's the issue.

[arm79]

I think this is something the majority of us will have to contine to disagree with you.

The people you should be blaming is the people that created the need for cheap tunes and making a money hungry tuners steal from the product that has been supporting them/us.

We are... As should SCT, but they are taking it out on EVERYONE... Even the legit buyers and users.

So with 5 years up of support of a product they are free to stop supportting the product.. its just like ford .. if they run out of a part from a '04 falcon they are not going to get more made are for you.

Working in IT, the defiinition of support for me is a manufacturer not developing further updates, drivers or taking phone calls for that product. Or SCT deciding not to update the list of processor codes or paramaters the X1 can access. What they have done is turn off the products usefulness, that's the difference..

Stop crying about a few hundred dollars for something that 5 years old.. you loses thousands of dollars on your cars every year.. do you go crying to the dealership that your car isnt worth as much when you trade in on a newer model...

I wish everyone would stop using this analogy. I know my car has lost 50% of its value since it was built. But I also know its going to still be working in 10 or 15 years time. I might not be able to buy new parts for it, but I'll still be driving it. I know know that tomorrow its NOT going to lock the handbrake on in park and never be able to be driven again.

Like genebaby said this is nothing to do with supporting a product with spare parts. It's essentially locking people out from using it to it's originally designed and marketed potential.

I have emails from SCT stating that the way we are using the X1 devices was never the intended use. It was designed to have tunes installed onto it, and for the owners to swap between those tunes only. It was never intended to be used as a "retune" tool, therefore even with the software disabling support for the device, the device is still working as intended.

...Herrod reinforced the "express warranty" the last time the sh*t hit the fan that the Xcal1 could be used indefinitely.

I have been communicating with SCT for the last couple of days. The last email I got from them suggested that Herrod said that off his own back, and even though Herrod signed the statement from "Herrod and SCT", SCT says that had no intention of honouring that commitment. They were always going to turn them off.

I havent had a reply to my last email from 8:30 this morning. If I don't hear anything back by tomorrow evening, I'll post the emails for everyone to read. I figure they've decided to stop communicating with me.

The basic summary of SCT's emails are:

1. We have been using the X1 devices not as described

2. They always intended switching tuning ability for the X1 off around this time this year

3. SCT never had any intention if honoring the commitment Herrod posted

4. They seem to be making alot of back peddling due to not really thinking things through

5. We are to bend over and take it

we all know that the xcal 1 could be retuned over and over up until the lock out and now we have people complaining about it's main feature being shut off, but I have just checked Capa's advert for the box and there is no mention of retuning over and over like we have been doing.

I believe they could argue that that this feature was not it's main function but just a by product of what was possible

Has any one got an advert showing that retuning the box was it's main function?

I have checked old SCT adds etc and can not find anything re retuning the car, only mentions about having up to 3 custom tunes in the box

Same can be said about the X3. There is no mention of being able to retune over and over. And this is both CAPA's and Herrod's site.

Both say I can store 3 custom tunes at any one time. So I'd assume I can customise those tunes however and whenever I want... I always thought that was the meaning of custom.

Edited 22/06/10 01:21 PM by arm79

[ratter]

I have emails from SCT stating that the way we are using the X1 devices was never the intended use. It was designed to have tunes installed onto it, and for the owners to swap between those tunes only. It was never intended to be used as a "retune" tool, therefore even with the software disabling support for the device, the device is still working as intended.

Ok, that's what I was thinking may be the case

Same can be said about the X3. There is no mention of being able to retune over and over. And this is both CAPA's and Herrod's site.

Both say I can store 3 custom tunes at any one time. So I'd assume I can customise those tunes however and whenever I want... I always thought that was the meaning of custom.

Custom normally means building a tune to suit a specific car and it's mods as opposed to a geneirc tune which is basically a tune from another vehicle and may not be ideal or even good for your car.

X3's and Xcal 2's allow some end user adjustability to make changes if the tuner configures it to do so

[genebaby]

Touche, are we also using the X3 the wrong way?

By this I mean having the tune adjusted or the car re-tuned again from scratch?

If they were never designed like that then they would have write once type memory.

The very nature of tuning our cars, because it's not "live" tuning means the unit will be flashed "many" times to achieve a quality custom tune. So of course we will flash it again and again.

As I said above, nobody is going to pay for another box every time they want their tune tickled and SCT know this too. They charge plenty for the box initially and then we can do what we want/need.

Edited 22/06/10 01:36 PM by genebaby

[arm79]

Touche, are we also using the X3 the wrong way?

Possibly. I'm still waiting on a reply to that question.

Actually, considering this whole debacle ultimately is all about money, maybe it could be as simple as paying an additional royalty to SCT for everytime someone drives out of a tuner, with a complete working tune, that was done by an X1 device.

I'd pay another $20 or $30 or maybe even $50 per tune to be able to use my X1 box. For those of us that only do 1 or 2 tunes per year, it would be easier to stomach at the time of the tune, and we continue to get the use of our X1 boxes.

At the price of an X3, it would take quite a few tunes to make up cost and potential change over costs. And yes, some of us may eventually go past that X3 cost. But it gives us a financially viable option, and allows us to choose if we want to upgrade or not, and SCT generate more Aussie revenue.

Edited 22/06/10 01:44 PM by arm79