Xcal 1 Going Offline Discussion

[blupwr]

I think this is great news - imagine being able to upgrade an item that is already out of warranty!!

Kudos to Herrod Motorsport for getting the rebate happening, without them the rebate wouldn't be happening, and now as a result the 6 speed software will be sped up some.

XCAL1's started to become unreliable up to 3 years ago, so the writing has been on the wall for some time.

Bandriver, the SCT software is the safest on the market, if you want to risk your $8000 engine for the sake of saving a few pennies, then go for your life. Open closed loop fuel blending aint hp's strong suit............trust me, I have both.

Edited 18/06/10 05:57 AM by blupwr

[ratter]

All the tuners, and hopefully ratter can confirm the background on this, have said "you have known for ages they were going to pull support". The distributors post says they arent. Did you receive extra notification beyond that that said the devices had a finite life? Because if you did, it sure doesn't seem to have been communicated to the buying public. Note that I'm not having a crack at you, just trying to find out where the idea of cutting off support came from.

Please do not accept everything I say as the way it is happening, all I'm trying to do is make the situation as clear as I understand it.

At the time of the last lock out, it was brought about by SCT, nothing to do with Herrods, it was brought about because there were some illegal activities allegedly happening, the only way SCT could stop it was to stop the use of the Xcal 1's. Rob Herrod went in to bat for the aussies and got the situation restored, but with a few changes which only affected us tuners. At the time it was made clear to us that support for the Xcal 1 was to be ceased at some point in the future, we were not told of a time and I can not find where that information was made available at present, but I have changed laptop since then.

From that point on Pit Lane chose to only sell X3's to our customers and the only Xcal 1 sold was my personal 2nd hand unit and the customer was told that it will not be able to be upgraded for ever.

We have customers all the time trying to save a buck and choose to buy 2nd hand boxes from other sources. We have always advised them there is a risk whether or not they can be unlocked and there will come a time in the not too distant future when it will not work. We always give honest advice to our customers.

At the time of the intital shut down, it was reported that SCT had not moved any Xcal 1 stock into Australia for quite some period of time and I personly believe they had no idea how big our retune market was.

SCT had ceased support for this product in the US market for quite some time before this.

SCT are a business not just some guy sitting at home trying to crack software. Business need to make money to survive and continue with development work etc, if they were not selling boxes into Australia I could see why they would consider doing what they did. They do not get any funds from tuners except for the intial outlay of the software.

I personally look upon some of the flash box cost as being a licence fee for SCT, most forms of business software require licence fees to be paid from time to time and as mentioned SCT are a business. If I was to tune with my VCM suite, I need to charge licence fees on top of my tuning cost, these licence fees go back to VCM. Most GM software operates the same way with licence fees required.

If using other forms of software like VCM suite, it does not give the end user the ability to go back to the stock tune or have different tunes available to them, or as with the later SCT boxes, the ability to make some changes to the tune themselves.

I have spoken to Rob and it appears he had no idea of the lock out until it happened and it came about with the updates trying to get the ZF software to work, Rob has invested quite a bit of money in equipment to get auto information and in parts to send to the states for SCT to attempt to crack the software. He is keen to get this operating quickly.

You also have to remember that Herrod Motorsport was not the distributor for Xcal 1's, altough he sold them he would have been buying them from the previous distributor. Herrod Motorsport are only responsible for the X3's and although we signed contracts with the previous distributor Herrods have offered us valuble support in the past.

As a tuner, I had no idea of the lock out until it happened and I'm sure all other tuners are the same.

If you choose not to use another SCT product that is your own call, but at the momment it appears to be the best tool for the job.

Your Xcal1 is not going to stop working next time you plug it into your car, it will continue to work until there is physically a problem with the box, it's just you can not retune it again.

Many people once they get a tune, do not use the box again so they are not affected, those who change tunes from their box often can still use them, only those that get retunes will be affected.

[blupwr]

Excellent post Mick, people in this thread need to understand that Herrod aren't the bad guys. Actually, there is one bad egg out there who was up until recently re flashing XCAL1's, he is not a forum sponsor on here, if anyone wants to point the finger, he is the guy ultimately responsible in my opinion.

Without Rob Herrod, the XCAL1's would be turned off, and there would be no rebate. The guy fights for us, about time we realised this and appreciated it.

Chris

[arm79]

Please do not accept everything I say as the way it is happening, all I'm trying to do is make the situation as clear as I understand it.

Fully understand that. It's good of you to provide some background and inside info into what is happening.

At the time it was made clear to us that support for the Xcal 1 was to be ceased at some point in the future, we were not told of a time and I can not find where that information was made available at present, but I have changed laptop since then.

that's the information I was personally after. Herrod has told the tuners that support will cease sometime, but not the people who bought these products and thought they were safe. That post from last Feb gave everyone an assurance they devices could be used forever under certain conditions, which I dare say everyone has met and still meets.

Rather Herrod should have said "Everything is back on, but on the 01/07/10 we will discontinue supprt. So start saving for a new one, or we'll work on a trade in deal"

From that point on Pit Lane chose to only sell X3's to our customers

Which is what Herrod have said in that post. As a tuner you've done everything expected of you.

I have spoken to Rob and it appears he had no idea of the lock out until it happened and it came about with the updates trying to get the ZF software to work, Rob has invested quite a bit of money in equipment to get auto information and in parts to send to the states for SCT to attempt to crack the software. He is keen to get this operating quickly.

You also have to remember that Herrod Motorsport was not the distributor for Xcal 1's, altough he sold them he would have been buying them from the previous distributor. Herrod Motorsport are only responsible for the X3's and although we signed contracts with the previous distributor Herrods have offered us valuble support in the past.

The way I see it, unfortunately Herrod signed the bottom of that post as "The Team @ Herrod Motorsport & SCT". Seems to me there was a binding understanding between Herrod, SCT and the users.

I understand he wasn't the distributor for the X1 or X2's, and he's not the bad guy here and is trying to and has helped us greatly in the past... However when he signed up to be that person/company, he took on the responsibility of support for all the new stuff and the stuff he came before it, including the s&%tstorm that came with it.

If SCT had turned this feature off in there software, and not told him, then its his responsibility as the aussie representitive to go back to them and keep them to the agreement he and SCT made with us.

Its like me taking me taking my Mondeo to the dealer (a tuner) for a problem... They discuss it with with Ford Aus HQ (Herrod), who says "sorry, its a different shape to the one we are selling now, cant help anymore, your problem is with Ford Europe, we don't make these... But we can sell you a new one"... And Ford Europe (SCT) just not giving a crap. Love to see them legally try make that work.

Just to reiterate, I'm not having a stab at Herrod or any tuners. I think we all have worked out who caused this in the first place, and its their fault it has come to this. However, a public promise has been made, and whether Herrod likes it or not, I think he has to stick to that promise.

P.S. Thinking on the sinister side though, the $200 trade in seems like a nice peace meal offering... But it appeared pretty quickly, like those in the know knew it was coming and when exactly it was going to hit.

[TheoF6]

In the email as quoted before That was for tuning shops eyes only.

This being said, all new tune sales from here on will need to be done on the X3

This email is 18 months old. we were told to sell only XCAL3 flash tuners. If your tuner has sold you a flash tuner and was not a XCAL3 you need to bring this up your tuner.

There seem to be a few bad apples in the tuner industry that has burnt customers, lThis can not be controlled by SCT/Herrods so how is it there fault

It is ILLEGAL to unlock a unit that hasn’t been as it is not the intended use of the product. In this case, the unit will remain, as it always should have, locked to the car that it is currently until it expires. This means that no boxes will be able to be reset! You can't put a tune in one car, have it unlocked and tune another! Doing so is ILLEGAL!

Again another bad apple was doing the wrong thing and we all have to pay for it, Herrods,Tuners and you the customers have to suffer because of other peoples actions.

Its been over 2 years since a new XCAL1 flash tuner has been sold in aust, As daniel said before the USA has stopped support of the XCAL1 that's 10 years old now a long time ago and if it was not Rob at Herrods the XCAL1 would have been turned off 18 Mths ago.

So the people chasing cheap tunes have been caught out, once again you get what you pay for.....

[Buf-Phoon]

simply put , the rub is that the tuning industry benefits.

Not saying that was SCTs or anyone elses intent, but that is the net result

[tab]

In the email as quoted before That was for tuning shops eyes only.

Which is the problem, Ratter has mentioned several times that they (the tuners) knew the end was near...but what about every other sucker? Unfortunately not all tuners have the same moral standing as Pitlane so wouldn't even think twice about selling a superseded product, as well as those selling privately and/or second hand.

And whoopydoo that Herrods are not to blame, they are the local distributor under contract with the manufacturer, which in the eyes of Australian Trade Practices legislation makes Herrods the manufacturer. If they have left themselves contractually liable to or left themselves open to being f*cked over by SCT then that is not the consumer's fault, so why should the consumer then turn around and adopt the "oh poor Herrods, they are only trying to help" attitude?

At the end of the day where was the disclosure from the outset? We all know they can only be used on five vehicles etc...why not make it public knowledge that the Excal 1 will expire at an undetermined date? Don't just notify tuners in a confidential email - tell the friggin world. What did they have to lose (other then sucking people in to continue purchasing then make a few more dollars through a forced upgrade)

Absolutely pathetic.

[Henz]

So the people chasing cheap tunes have been caught out, once again you get what you pay for.....

Im sure most tuners charge all there customers a set rate for tunes so theres no difference in which box its done with. The obvious issue is there are hundreds of us out there who only recently brought x1s and have got 18 months use out of them, and are still planning to modify our xr's, but are going to have to fork out 595 just for the pleasure.

I had my car tuned with an x1 about a fortnight after they first threatened to shut off the x1, and my tuner told me it was fine and tuned it with an x1, does that mean they should cover the costs to continue tuning the car, after all theyll be losing out on thousands in tuning and labour $$ by me not wanting to be reamed by SCT/Herrod

What about people with big hp setups and xcal1s, will they have to pay to remove parts like injectors, so they can put in the stock tune so they can then update to an x3?

Edited 18/06/10 07:04 AM by henz

[South]

Also, not much point trying to discuss it over on the FF forums, as your post is only going to be removed, they all have their hands in one anothers pockets over there... So unless this is brought up directly with Herrod Motorsport then he is going to be none the wiser of the consumers disgust. I don't own an XCAL1 so am not affected, but that's not the point here. The point is that the product is now useless for those who require servicing of their tunes from time to time through the equipment that they have purchased.

Not to mention breaking a promise made to the consumer, that was broken approx 18 months ago through a private email between business'

No need to upgrade to a newer device when your vehicle cannot benefit from additional features, ie ZF tuning for a BTR/T56 equiped vehicle.

[arm79]

In the email as quoted before That was for tuning shops eyes only.

I dont think that's the case.

It was posted here under the name 'Herrod Motorsport' and comments are that its the same message posted on other forums. Same username Herrod uses elsewhere. So we have to assume its legit and was posted by Herrod.

The line "Trading is as normal for your chosen tune-shop and others alike!" tells me this message addressed to the general public. They wouldn't put "your chosen tune-shop and others alike!" at the bottom if it was going to tuners only.

Which says to me there must be another *similar* email elsewhere that tuners got, with further comments and information. The public got a nicely truncated version. I truely hope that is not the case.