New F6 Owner And New Member.

[Gecko F6]

That is a very interesting comparison and one that will be a bit of a different experience answering here than other certain forums. Normally in answering this sort of question I run the risk of upsetting 66% of FPV owners with honest answers.

To understand the difference of the typhoon in terms of performance in comparison with the Super Pursuit and the Mini MCS I need to explain what it was like when I had the Mini and the Super Pursuit.

The Super Pursuit (and same for the GT) had many things going for it as a performance car, mostly even standard it had a pretty good exhaust note (particularly at full throttle), a nice lumpy idle and the bulge adds a lot of presence. Handling was good for near on 2000kg of car but when pushed the front tended to understeer and you could really feel the weight. The rear on most surfaces was quite planted and being live axle it does not suffer from torn diff bushes. The down side of this rear end is the fact that a mid corner bump often upsets the other side, that and axle tramp would often come in on hard launches making getting it off the line a challenge. Brakes were awesome considering the weight off the car but they were 6 spot brembo's. The annoying thing with this car in some respects was the one thing about it that was supposed to make it "the good aussie muscle car", by that I mean the engine. The Boss motor is a strange beast with multi cam heads on a long stroke largish capacity motor. The multi cam 32 valve heads make it a motor that likes to breathe in the upper rev range and this was evidenced by that definite lack of urge at fewer than 3000 rpm and the manic top end that all Boss motors have. The problem is that the rev limit comes in at 5900 so you have 2900 rpm to play in and the long stroke makes it a motor that does not really like to build revs quickly. I don't know how many times I was just starting to have fun and then all of a sudden the stock rev limiter just about put my head through the windscreen. This characteristic meant that you had to be right on top of things on the gear box to keep it in the fun part of the rev range and mistakes were punished brutally with lack lustre pull out of a corner. Having said all that, it was good fun car in general driving, the odd spirited drive and it did have one hell of a lot of street presence with a good talent for attracting admiring looks and the odd petrol station conversation.

Now the Mini. This car is dead set good fun but in reality it is often hard to live with. It makes no sense at all with its complete lack of boot space, no usable rear seat (it has one but it is not usable) and a harsh ride that any long trip requires kidney belts. The funny thing is all these shortfalls constitute character and the common ground that all Mini owners understand and cherish. I have never met anyone that has said they are a practical car but they are fun. The saying that you buy a car but you adopt a Mini is so true. In a car that weighs just 1050kg, with 135kw, 280nm, wide track with a wheel at each corner the car handles and goes. The biggest issue with the handling is in the ability of FWD to put the torque to the ground especially when the inside wheel is unweighted in the absence of an LSD. Braking is unreal, stand on those bad boys and the front bar almost scrapes on the ground and you have to brace hard in the seat. These brakes outperformed both of my previous FPV's easily and last so long without fade which is something even the brembo's don't seem to match. Cornering speed of the Mini is in another league compared to any FPV and this comes down to that nice wide track, low height with a low centre of gravity and just over half the weight. The most fun is brake really late, turn into the corner and feel the inside rear wheel lift off the ground. That little 1.6 L turbo motor is a gem, more than enough power to have a lot of fun but it does not cost much considering I can be first away at every set of lights and experience the torque and strong acceleration frequently and it still returns a fuel economy of 7.5 L/100 km and a range of 750 km out of the 50 L tank. Compare that to the ute where driving it like and grandmother gets you 14.5 L/100 km and less and 400 km out of the 75 L tank. In terms of performance the Mini does not seem far behind the ute in acceleration, a feeling that is backed up by it’s ¼ mile time of 14.5 (the ute was never run at the track but it would do a low 14). It has great torque with it being at the top of its game from 1700-4500 and there is no need to take it to the 6000 rev limit. Basically I could jump out of the ute and into the Mini and in terms of power they do not feel that different, it was not until you accelerate at speeds such as 80-120 that the V8 displayed any real advantage. The disadvantage of the mini with the power compared to the ute really only came down to a RWD vs FWD thing.

Now onto the latest toy, the F6 Typhoon which coincidentally is the same model as the Super Pursuit and therefore a good comparison in my view of the abilities of the V8 against the 6T. In terms of performance this thing is in a whole new league and punching way above it weight. It has more torque lower in the rev range (550 nm @ 2000) than the ute (520 nm @ 4500) and this results in a car that easier to drive and less likely to be caught unawares in a gear that it can not pull through the corner. In the ute it was a case of put the foot down and wait a while for the torque to come on, while in the f6 it is put the foot down and prepare to ride that wave of torque. The torque comes on so much stronger and so much earlier than the V8 it is a lot more rewarding to drive and you don’t have to thrash the rings out it to have any fun. In the ute I frequently hit the rev limiter to have any fun due to the narrow power range so high up in the rev range where in the F6 I have touched rev limit once and virtually have no need tot take it that high. I find in the F6 you change gear at 5000 and have the next gear in the meat of the torque curve, no where near the rev limit. The F6, even stock has so much grunt that it makes the Mini feel positively breathless. Every time I get out of the F6 into the Mini I am disappointed in the power of the Mini, with the ute this was not an issue. The biggest problem with the F6 compared to the Boss motor is the rear tyres, the F6 likes to break the back tyres loose and ride traction control if you are too heavy on the throttle, the V8 was a lot more forgiving and this shows in the rear tyre wear (yeah I know, not really a problem). In terms of handling the F6 sits between the ute and the Mini. It is considerably better than the ute with less weight over the front, less tendency to understeer and more planted in the rear with less likelihood to be unsettled from mid corner bumps due to the IRS. In comparison to the Mini the F6 is behind the eight ball, the Mini will out corner the F6 every time and can in general carry 15 km/h more corner speed without understeer or feeling like the tyres are being pushed (incidentally I am running the same Toyo Proxes T1R on both cars so it is not a tyre issue). The advantage the F6 has over the ute is in normal driving the F6 runs at about 2.5 L/100 km better in fuel consumption which equals about the same range out of the smaller 68 L tank, get heavy on the throttle and it drinks like a sailor but that is ok. The F6 is much more comfortable than the ute, mainly due to the seats as they are softer than the Super Pursuit seats but they also have less lateral support when cornering hard. As a car to drive for long distances the suspension and seats make the F6 a nicer place to be than the ute.

So in summary the ute (and the GT before it) are good grand tourers with a reasonable amount of grunt and good comfort (GT better than ute), that also has a hell of a lot of street presence. The Mini is a great handling car that corners like nothing else I have driven with a good amount of power for corner to corner squirts, it is the best fun you can have on public roads with your clothes on. The F6 is just a monster, great looks (not as good as the Boss), very capable handling and so much power and torque it is addictive. The Boss knows how to talk the talk but the F6 knows how to walk the walk and that is what makes the F6 my personal favourite over any of the others.

[Mist]

Interesting read, thanks for taking the time to write it up!

[Pixy Angel]

very nice mate love the rims for some reason they suit the car. Enjoy your stay here

[Gecko F6]

Finally got the Phoon out to the track. Busy night so I only got three runs but the air temp was pretty good at 11 degrees on the final run.

I ran it with full tyre pressure, half tank of fuel, spare tyre still in it so it really was in full street trim.

I totally blew the first run trying the 2-1 shift on the ZF, then hit rev limit and then accidentally shifted to 4th way too early and had to down shift back to 3rd. Result on this run was 13.8 @ 105 mph and a 60' of 2.3.

Second run was in performance auto stalled up to about 1500. It ran a 13.3 @ 108 mph with a 60' of 2.1

The third run was done in normal auto and stalled up to about 1500 again. Result was a 13.4 @ 106 mph and 60' of 2.22.

I am very pleased with this result, any way you cut it a 13.3 street car is very quick for completely stock. The GT took reduced tyre pressures, any excess weight removed and about $6000 in mods to get down from 14.5 to a repeatable 13.3, so I am happy.

I probably will not run it again unless I get it modded, I now know what it will run with a gumby driver (it was my first go at both a turbo Ford and ZF equipped car so I need more practice). I have little doubt that having a decent driver behind the wheel (or more practice on my part) this car would get down to a solid 13.2 or maybe a 13.1

[bradles024]

Nice work mate, 13.3 isn't exactly a slow car. Looks sexy too

[Gecko F6]

Well the mods are starting, slowly.

I have now fitted a 30mm front sway bar and 22mm rear which has improved the handling a bit. I also have some standard height kings 570lb springs to go into the front (I don't want to lower it because of scraping issues) and these will go in when I change the front and rear shocks as well as the lower control arm bushes.

Tomorrow a twin 2 1/2" cat back exhaust will go on, not for performance but just for a bit of sound.

After that the plan will be for a larger IC (live in QLD, I need it), dump pipe, cat and a tune. I know this is not a lot and seems pretty mild but I am not after much. All I want is a car that can be taken to the track in full street form with no tyre pressures adjusted or weight taken out and run a 12.5 or less without flogging it.

I think I should be able to achieve that with those mods, if not I might have to do a bit more.

[Gecko F6]

The exhaust is now on.

It has a lot more note now with some more volume as well. Backing off the throttle and letting the gears slow it is more fun now with some extra pop and burble.

Down side is there seems to be a bit of drone but I will wait until the system settles in and builds up some carbon before I start to panic.

I have no idea if it is producing any more power, I suspect it isn't and I was not expecting any. I have noticed that the turbo seems to build boost a bit quicker so I will be interested in seeing how it goes up the track.

A big thanks to Scott and the guys at Cleveland Exhaust for their great work and fantastic price, legends!

I will find out some track times tonight, up to Willowbank for the shopping trolley shootout.

[Gecko F6]

Finally got the Phoon out to the track. Busy night so I only got three runs but the air temp was pretty good at 11 degrees on the final run.

I ran it with full tyre pressure, half tank of fuel, spare tyre still in it so it really was in full street trim.

I totally blew the first run trying the 2-1 shift on the ZF, then hit rev limit and then accidentally shifted to 4th way too early and had to down shift back to 3rd. Result on this run was 13.8 @ 105 mph and a 60' of 2.3.

Second run was in performance auto stalled up to about 1500. It ran a 13.3 @ 108 mph with a 60' of 2.1

The third run was done in normal auto and stalled up to about 1500 again. Result was a 13.4 @ 106 mph and 60' of 2.22.

I am very pleased with this result, any way you cut it a 13.3 street car is very quick for completely stock. The GT took reduced tyre pressures, any excess weight removed and about $6000 in mods to get down from 14.5 to a repeatable 13.3, so I am happy.

I probably will not run it again unless I get it modded, I now know what it will run with a gumby driver (it was my first go at both a turbo Ford and ZF equipped car so I need more practice). I have little doubt that having a decent driver behind the wheel (or more practice on my part) this car would get down to a solid 13.2 or maybe a 13.1

Well the results are in after my trip to the track last night. The night was pretty warm with runs starting in 24 degrees and down to 21 for the last runs. The first 2 runs straight off the street were 13.5's with a very hot intake and a MPH of 106. Compare these runs to another night that I went up with same ambient temp and there was an improvement as before it was running 13.7 @ 105 MPH in the same conditions so it appeared that the cat back had done the unexpected and there was an improvement.

I then let the car cool down for about 40 mins while I had something to eat and in the meantime the ambient temp shed a degree or two.

The next run was in pretty good conditions with the engine cross over just warm to touch and an ambient temp of 21 degrees. Result was a 2.185 60', 13.374 @107 mph with a slight nudge of the rev limiter in the 2-3 gear change.

I then lined straight back up for the last run of the night as they were closing the lanes. I blew the start on this by stalling up too much, having to back off again and launched with almost no stall and this resulted in a 2.2 60', 13.341 @ 107 mph. I have no doubt if I had not have stuffed the start and done another 2.1 60', this run would have netted a lower ET of perhaps a solid 13.2.

So what do these time mean to me? The cat back does seem to have made a performance improvement as I am now running equivalent times at 21 degrees ambient temp as I was at 11 degrees ambient temp plus I have picked up 2 mph as well.

I also have been using the dynolicious app on my Iphone, on which no settings have been altered and this has shown some results that are interesting. Before I start I know that this device can not be used as a true indication of RWKW as it all depends on getting vehicle weight correct and a few other factors. The interesting fact is on the runs prior to the exhaust I was consistently getting readings of 235 rwkw with the odd one dropping down to 232. Last night with the new exhaust a was getting consistent readings of 245 rwkw so it seems there may be a 10 kw improvement there. I will state again, I am not claiming my F6 is putting out 245 rwkw, I am just saying it is now showing a consistent improvement of 10 kw over results before.

The down side of this exhaust seems to continue that it does drone, primarily at 2000-3000 rpm but this has settled down a bit last night. I am hoping that this will continue to settle as the car only has about 300 km on it since the exhaust was fitted, perhaps a bit more carbon build up will help. If not I will have to look at other ways to manage it. Does anyone have any ideas on what will settle it down without losing too much of the flow improvement that I seem to have gained?

My future plans consist of a mild tune, high flow cat, perhaps dump pipe and injectors if I have to but I want to keep it pretty mild and very safe at the moment. I am wondering if the extra flow of the larger dump pipe and high flow cat will drop some of the drone out if, what do you all think, am I being optimistic or realistic?

My final question is can a high flow cat be fitted to a BF F6 with stock tune and stock dump pipe without risking over boost?

[Henz]

Car will over boost with a hi flo cat.

But with a cat, injectors, and fuel pump plus tune you'll be doing low to mid 12s.

[MADF6]

Old thread but sorry does anyone know what rims these are?