And You Wonder Why We Bother

[Velvet Glove]

Assuming if what he really wanted to do was to confront me then end up apologising for it then maybe he did get what he wanted.

Please excuse me for being a bit pious here, but in my job we are not paid to walk away from confrontation. If someone pulls a copper on and the Police meekly walk away then not only has the copper lost personal face, but the public face of a society that should be intolerant to that sort of behaviour is also lost.

So if I hadve just smiled meekly, closed my door and moved my car what message does that send to the person involved. It sends the message that that sort of behaviour is acceptable. So when the person ups the ante for his next try, and whacks in a physical attack on an isolated Police officer and someone gets hurt what do we say then.

I'm not saying that because I am a copper that I am infallible and completely beyond question when I do my job. We live in a society where people are innocent until proven guilty, and people jhave the right to question how and why government does business in a certain way.

What I wont, and never will stand, is a bare-faced and unprovoked confrontation initiated for no good reason whatsoever.

To further the insight, whilst I have described this situation as quite a unique one, in reality this kind of thing happens on virtually a daily basis. When people act this way I dont think they are challenging me personally, or my profession, but are challenging society in general. They are throwing their behaviour right out there and saying 'well what are you gonna do about it'.

As I said to the young gentleman involved when he walked up to me and stood toe to toe, 'if you wanna go down that line you'd better have more than a smart mouth'. Suffice to say he stepped back and the attitude changed.

If you think what I did was wrong (and I'd suggest you'd have to spend one shift on a busy day to find out otherwise) then so be it. I appreciate your opinion, and the fact that it is allowed to differ is one of the things that make living here, as opposed to somewhere like China, so great. But I wont be changing the way I work

[JJ_Phantom]

I'm not saying the guy was in the right - but as you say, we live in a country where we can question our government. If I was in a rush - pulled into a carpark, parked legally and was tolded to move, or be booked - I wouldn't be happy either. I'm not the kind of person that would question it, I'd just move (and complain to myself, to everyone at work, and to the mrs about it - - Yes JJ, get over it!).

[plonky]

JJ, I understand your point of view. I don't believe you would be in a constant position where the company/employer/self employed business etc you represent is constantly being challenged on a moral and legal standard by those who want to "live outside the community standard".

If this was purely a scenario as portrayed in your last post, then it would appear that it is one Reindeer butting horns with another.

This was not the case, as VG explained in his original post. I see this sort of behaviour every day from people who want to challenge the State, Community and Personal standard that the majority want kept in place.

Therefore it is not State sponsored bullying to make the most of our statutory and implied authority, it is doing what is reasonable to a community standard. I can guarantee you, both VG and I have been in the cops long enough to know when and how is unlawful and not to cross the line to unlawful behaviour lest we are on the receiving end from any number of oversightig bodies that want a personal piece of the cops.

I know that I am the same both in and out of uniform. I think the same way, I act the same way and I would certainly chat someone who parked right next to my car so I had trouble opening the door if it was done negligently or maliciously.

[sixfan]

  Quote

What I wont, and never will stand, is a bare-faced and unprovoked confrontation initiated for no good reason whatsoever.

matey, don't ever go to the pub then :D It happens to everyone, I just avoid it or walk away. I had a gun pointed at me by a landholder in the course of performing my job and been spat on and ranted at by Greenpeace activists. I can't retaliate in any way or I'd put the company in a bad light. they weren't the enemy trying to destroy the Australian way of life. they were people with grievances who had good reasons (to them anyway) for doing what they did. perhaps Old mate in the carpark had his reasons too? It seems you may be assuming the worst of people with some of your posts, so heres a message from the silent majority: Thanks, Honestly, thanks. :D

[ducatijb]

  HocuSChrisT said:

When I see on television of people burning the Australian National Flag, I'm filled with rage at the "freedom of speech" crap. They burn something that generations of Australians have fought to protect and should recieve years in-prisonment for. They take their freedom for granted, and spit on Anzac Monuments. It all makes me sick. And yes, it's all laughed off.

Well said Hocus

I can never come to grips with flag burners,They should be tried for treason

As Plonky quite often says and I agree "oxygen thieves"

[JJ_Phantom]

  plonky said:

JJ, I understand your point of view. I don't believe you would be in a constant position where the company/employer/self employed business etc you represent is constantly being challenged on a moral and legal standard by those who want to "live outside the community standard".

Actually, I work in Corrections and come in contact with family of offenders, and ex offenders who are constantly trying to get a bite.

A similar example would be walking through a waiting room. You often get a couple of people try to bloke the direct way. I could (and some people do) say "please move" and they'll find it funny and sh*t stir more. Or I could walk 2 foot the other way and not be the aggressive one. 9 out of ten times I will end up walking back the direct way because I didn't make the impression that I'm the one with the power.

I'm not trying to start a arguement about it, but there are a lot of Police that go out of there way to be agressive, as there are a lot that will threaten to book people when the officer hasn't got their way straight away.

Police officers aren't the only people who are given a hard time EVERY day at work. Think about Bank tellers, parking inspectors, etc. They have to stand there and put up with unprovoked confrontation's every day.

[KEN 24T]

  JJ_Phantom said:

Think about Bank tellers, parking inspectors, etc.  They have to stand there and put up with unprovoked confrontation's every day.

Good observation, JJ.

SWMBO is a bank teller and I can't begin to tell you the stress and agro she cops from the morons she has to deal with, especially on "Pay Day" (Thursday, benefits day). And yes, they (morons) actually call it Pay Day!

They (the tellers) make me laugh sometimes, one of them believes that on "Pay Day" they (the tellers) should wander up and down the queue, dispensing lethal injections to the deserving masses.

Now, don't dismiss the idea out of hand, give it a moment to sink in ... think about it ... the cost of a few shots balanced against the cost of social security? hmmmm ....

Controvertial? Don't care ... sue me!

[NT TURBO]

Oh that reminds me pay day tomorrow!

[plonky]

JJ

I again see you point of view, however the dynamics of your position in the Gaol (Corrections.....Pwha!) is not the same as a crim on the outside openly challenging the people who have the capacity to legally restrict their liberty.

A gaol is still a microcosm of society. There are different levels of power and different methods of enforcing both defined and implied standards of behaviour. However, most of the crims are not affected by alcohol or drugs.

Most of the time people will do what you ask without hesitation. There is always a group of people that will test the boundaries, and force is the final method of esuring compliance. The fact that Police are legally and morally entitled to take someones life to enforce a moral standard (shoot someone to protect a victim) indicates that not everyone is willing to comply with the accepted standard.

OK, so we don't shoot people who park us in at the carpark. We have tactical options to support the request for an acceptable standard of behaviour.

Police don't immediately yell and scream at someone for a minor infraction however we need to be in a position where we can escalate a tactical option to ensure compliance. If a number of inmates refuse to obey a direction from a prison officer there is no possibility of backing down. Ultimately the prisoner's compliance will be reached by way of use of the Emergency Unit, Lockdown or visit restrictions. If the problem is caused by a vistor, then the visitor forfeits their right to return.

I know you're not trying to start an argument, however, the dynamic inside a gaol is vastly different to outside.

Cheers

Grant

[Lumpen]

  HocuSChrisT said:

They take their freedom for granted, and spit on Anzac Monuments.

Seen this done and it makes me VERY, VERY Annoyed...Nothing that a swift kick in the goolies and punch in the back of the head didnt fix...I absolutely despise any sort of disrespect shown on ANZAC Day or other times honouring the memory of our fallen. and living in low socio-economic areas all my (short) life I have seen enough of it.

Nothing quite like walking into a state war memorial (South Aus in my case) and seeing literally dozens of your relatives who you didnt know you were even related to,2 hours before! Families all wiped out at the Somme, Passchendale, Ypres etc.

Basically its the only Public Holiday I pay any attention at all to and have even bought a few disrespecters around too!