Five Young Men Dead As Car Smashes Into Tree

[PAH]

Unfortunately this sort of thing will not stop no matter what anyone does. To say you've never done anything stupid behind the wheel of a car during your lifetime is rubbish as everyone has to some degree.

I agree Dillz,

For young car enthusiasts, I suspect that it's a case of crash or crash through. The fact that we're still sucking air means we've been lucky enough to CRASH THROUGH.

Advanced Driver courses? Guess what most enthusiasts do with any safety margin they pick up. If and when the "advanced" driver looses it having used up his safety margin, the down-side is he's probably doing an extra 30+ km/h at that point. Advanced Driver courses need to focus on attitude probably more than skill levels. And attitude is VERY difficult to change with some (most?). I guess most of us become more defensive drivers after a few decades of adrenalin pumping scares?

This is not the first time this has happened and sadly, it won't be the last.

Two men dead after high-impact car crash

I drove past the Epping Rd Alfa accident on the way to work. Having seen the debris scattered for about 80 metres down the road, the photos don't really show the force of the impact.

Those who learn by other people's misfortune might back off. Others might be influenced if they're up close to an incident - SES or Ambo's called out to an event for example. Hopefully not as participants or as relatives of somebody badly hurt.

In my opinion, safety margin is the answer. If you're going to play near the edge, be prepared to fall over sooner or later. If you want to play near the edge, do it where there's little or no risk of anybody getting hurt. Go for a squirt around your local race track. Any safety margin enhancing skills you develop, DON'T use them on busy public roads studded with immovable objects.

PAH

[turbotrana]

Its about time kids up to 21y/o being required to drive speed limited cars with GPS tracker. Drinking age needs to be raised to 21 also.

[Mat]

Terrible... but let's not all act like we are angels.......

Mate, none of us are angels and personally I have had 6 people in my car on two seperate occasions. Both times they were drunk but well behaved, a taxi wasnt an option since we were in whoop whoop and I never let anyone drink and drive. The difference between this bloke and I, is that I drove CAREFULLY and SLOWLY on the way home understanding that what I was doing was illegal but the other options could possible end up far worse. This bloke on the other hand thought it was OK to do 150kms.

We are all guilty of breaking the road rules but common sense is that little thing in your brain that reminds you "time and place" before you drop 2nd, give it a squirt, or try and break the land speed record with 10 passengers crammed in the back. To some of us its natural, but more and more people seem to have misplaced it

Im with you Zap. Speed doesn't kill, its utter stupidity and physics.

On the 17/10/04 I personally called the father of my best mate (of 8 years) at 2.30am to let him know that his son had just been killed in a car accident*. The police knock came 3 hours later. His parents are like my second parents, they opened their home to heaps of us during high school / uni. I consider his brothers as mine. The last 5 years has flown by but I can honestly say that out of dozens of friends, there are only two of us who still catch up with his family as often as possible. Moral of this story is in that last sentence. It makes the world of difference to his mum in particular.

*P Plater driver swerved from kerb to kerb on a straight stretch of road doing within 5kms of the speed limit (70kms). Car hit a box kerb and rolled. Driver walked away and refused to say why he swerved in court.

Edited 17/01/10 02:46 PM by Mat

[SDWAYZ]

I havn't posted for a long time. I sold my XR Turbo's a while back to concentrate on track racing with another vehicle.

This is very sad. Five young people killed and another who will be changed for life.

I am 33 and decided a year ago that if I wanted to go fast I would hit the track in a car built for in at a place I can enjoy it. Cars today, and the XR Turbo is a prime example have so much grunt with a few tweaks that you really can't enjoy any of it on a public road. I don't want to sound like an old mole but they are really the facts.

I look back when I was 23 and I use to go to Calder every second Friday to run my cars and shake the "hoon" bug out with good memories. I was no angel but it seems to me that young peoples judgment behind the wheel just isn't what it used to be. I think from what I have seen of late there are a few reoccuring factors why this is becoming more common.

1# The law of averages. When there are more young people driving more will die. It's unfortunate but the facts. On the whole as a population the number of cars in the last ten years on our roads has increased dramatically, while the number killed anually has risen no where near as fast. The TAC and the like keep pumping out the shock ad campaigns and if it saves just one life well and good. It's a double edged sword. More drivers = more accidents but on the whole we are doing pretty well if you look at the numbers. Unfortunatly the numbers can't comfort the people we have already lost.

2# The proportion of young people killed in accidents in standard cars versus true high performance cars is most certainly well weighted in the favour of standard car territory. In this instance, the reports all claim a "high performance" car involved - this is and is not true at the same time. By todays standards it has no more power than your garden variety mum and dad Falcon save for the spoiler and wheels. That said, the family car of ten years ago had nowhere near as much power and as we keep seeing, 180 odd KW in inexperienced hands is more than enough to lead to fatal consequences. The first VN SS Commodores and XR8 Sprint's couldn't muster 180kw and were a handful for a young bloke - I know I ouwned them both for a time.

3# Peer preassure. I notice it alot now - perhaps because I am getting old and notice it more or because it really does happen more often. But I see a lot of friends kids really baiting thier friends to push the boundaries harder and harder behind the wheel. And alot of parents just turn a blind eye. Nobody can stop somebody from driving in a really dangerous fashion when it comes down to it, but if you are a potential passenger you have a choice. I have refused a few times to get in knowing that I would cop crap about it but I was willing to put up with it. And it was very hard to deal with sometimes when the male ego is involved. But it did save my life on two occasions and I was glad for my decision. I have even dragged myself out of bed 3am on a Friday to go pick up a mates step son stranded because the designated driver got too drunk and dissorderly instead but wanted to drive anyway. I would choose the 3am "I need a ride" call over the dreaded 3am knock every time. He made a good choice to call even though he was very pissed and found another way home - alive.

Sorry if it sounds a bit woeful, but it is how I see it. I have lost 2 friends this year and nearly a third - on bikes. All were pushing too hard. Experienced riders who were a little or a lot over the limit of speed and traction and when the time came to evade a bad situation the speed just made the situation worse. In 10 years I have lost another friend to drink driving, and half a dozen more come to mind that were very lucky to get out alive. EVERY single situation was because of poor judgment in the face of peer group preassure with the "go faster" or "just drive anyway" catchcry being their undoing.

Again my thoughts are with the families at this time. And to the rest of you if you really want to show your mates and yourself what the car can do go to the nearest track day. I started about 4 years ago and can honestly say that I have never driven over the speed limit since. (I do drive a Toyota Aurion as a company car now though so that may have something to do with it!).

My 2 cents.

James.

[400KwXr6t]

well said and I totally agree with the population rise and road toll figures,

Its always going to rise unfortunately.

Advanced drivers courses are good but that doesn't take into account Drunk, Drug, Tired or distracted drivers. and plain old stupidity.

These "hoon" laws are useless they need to be reformed and transposed over to drunk driving. guarentee that more accidents are caused by drunk drivers in old bombs and work cars than "high performance" cars giving a wheel chirp at the lights.

Unfortunately for the occupants of the crashed car no law in the world would have saved them. To many factors were against them. Nots sure if it said it anywhere but how many had seatbelts on? obvously there had to be one that didnt.

[rockafellqeinstien]

This is really tragic stuff.

It would be safe to say we have all been in situations similar to this but without the fatal consiquenses, luckily.

The bigest leason I learnt was the ability to say "no" and trust my instincts.

If you remember back to when you were a kid, how hard it was to say no when all your mates get in a car when they shouldnt - its a masive call at the time but 99% of the time they will come up the next day and say you did the right thing (if they give you craap the next day, look for new mates). I tought myself this - not sure if a parent can teach this - males at that age can be a real challenge.

I am all for pushing the limits but theres a right time and place for everything

condolances to the families

[MICKAJ]

Whats wrong with being an angel anyway? Better than being a wanker in life.

If being an angel means you have the ability to risk assess and judge reasonable from utterly retarded then I guess I'm the next saint.

btw 99% sure that car was non-turbo too.

Edited 18/01/10 03:00 AM by MICKAJ

[BLK6T]

Its about time kids up to 21y/o being required to drive speed limited cars with GPS tracker. Drinking age needs to be raised to 21 also.

Firstly condolences to family and friends affected, it has opened my eyes yet again.

I agree totally turbotrana, young drivers NEED to have speed limited cars, Its becoming more evident. If he was driving a car speed limited to 80km/h an accident may still have occured but I can guarantee lives would have been saved!

I don't see the point in restrictions on how much power a car can have for a P plater as it failed in this scenario, weather it was a new XR6, XR8, old VS V6 or even a Fiesta they are all capable to reach over 130km/h. Resticting occupants has also failed, this car had 6 occupants in a five seater car in the state that introduced the toughest road rules in Australia. Police are NOT everywhere and will not get everyone, therefor laws will be broken by the young drivers who don't understand in full what these harsh rules are trying to achieve, until they see this on the news. But unfortunatly it gets forgotten in a couple of weeks and everyone goes back to their driving habits.

I strongly think that L and P platers need speed limited cars or devices that can limit speed on a car. L platers need cars limited to 80km/h, P platers maybe 100km/h, on a full license limit is removed and hopefully the young drivers are more mature. Advanced driving courses may help but with 4 mates in a p platers car egging on the driver, the driver will do stupid things to impress, an advanced driving course won't stop that.

I had a L plater pass me on the F3 at 120km/h???? WTF were the parents doing in the car whilst their son was doing 40km/h over the limit??? No way is this young boy capable at driving at those speeds, the parent deserves to be locked up. This young boy will think its OK to speed everywhere. Again if he had a speed limited car set at 80km/h, this L plater would have been doing 80km/h.

My 2 cents anyway.

[Shark]

Its about time kids up to 21y/o being required to drive speed limited cars with GPS tracker. Drinking age needs to be raised to 21 also.

How old are you?

Those are both ridiculous ideas that wouldn't solve a thing.

GPS tracking for WHAT reason? That's an absolute invasion of privacy for no reason. Unless you want to be 'tracking' something else other than location? (you havn't stated..)

Quite an invasion of privacy I believe. I'm sure you would've hated it as a young adult, and I'm sure most people would.

You are still treating this age group as children. They are not.

Speed limited cars? To what? Anything below 110 would be dangerous, as most Australian roads have a max speed limit of 110.

I don't know about you, but I think it's EXTREMELY fkn dangerous when you come up behind someone on a freeway doing 30km/h UNDER the speed limit. That sort of driving CAUSES accidents, it does not save lives.

A limiter will mean that alot of kids will be sitting with their foot to the floor (depending on what speed the car should be limited to in your oh so wise opinion), and won't be concentrating on the road (as most drivers regardless of age already dont), and it will more than likely create more accidents.

The drinking age raised to 21 will not stop a thing either.

Small collisions maybe, but MOST of those collisions (non fatal) are caused by those over the age of 21 (including all those with a BAC over 0.00 (as it's ZERO tollerance on your Ps).

The idea between these government initiatives is to save lives.

More restrictions will do NOTHING to change attitude, and will NOT save lives.

[Shark]

Firstly condolences to family and friends affected, it has opened my eyes yet again.

I agree totally turbotrana, young drivers NEED to have speed limited cars, Its becoming more evident. If he was driving a car speed limited to 80km/h an accident may still have occured but I can guarantee lives would have been saved!

no you can't.

You don't have the power over life and death so PLEASE stop kidding yourself.

That's gotta be one of the most ignorant statements yet. Up there with the mentality of the guy who drove himself into the tree I would think.

I strongly think that L and P platers need speed limited cars or devices that can limit speed on a car. L platers need cars limited to 80km/h, P platers maybe 100km/h, on a full license limit is removed and hopefully the young drivers are more mature. Advanced driving courses may help but with 4 mates in a p platers car egging on the driver, the driver will do stupid things to impress, an advanced driving course won't stop that.

I had a L plater pass me on the F3 at 120km/h???? WTF were the parents doing in the car whilst their son was doing 40km/h over the limit??? No way is this young boy capable at driving at those speeds, the parent deserves to be locked up. This young boy will think its OK to speed everywhere. Again if he had a speed limited car set at 80km/h, this L plater would have been doing 80km/h.

And if this L plater was doing 80km/h, and you came up behind him while glancing down to look at your speed doing 20-30km/h more than him, you would've been more likely to rear-end him and have a collision, than him causing you to crash by overtaking at 120km/h.

Use your head.