Possibly The Biggest Xr6 Turbo Brakes Ever.

[Guest XR09]

I was lucky enough to be a part of a tire test.

The Bridgestone Potenza stopped at least 3m shorter than any of it's rivals in the dry. It held more speed through the turns than most of the others. But was one of the worst at wet braking. They were not that good in the wet slalom either.

Personally I did not like the feel of it. They don't drift well. They grip like hell then just let go.

We had Pirelli' P z's and pilots, Goodyear's and a few cheapies.

One of the best feeling and performing, although noisy was the Maxxis. Not sure on their life span. But I will be tossing the Pilots I have on for them next change.

But for semi slicks I put my life on bridgestones.

ZAP just wondering what your qualifications are to be so adamant that your right.

[blobak]

If the Bridgey was not that flash in the wet, out of the tyres tested what had the best wet braking tyre?

[ZAP]

I am a qualified mechanic and have been a car enthusisiast since I was in nappies. I have also tracked all my cars and owned several Sports Sedan racecars.

While I may be perdantic about this point, I am right !!!

If you get a v8 supercar with its racebrakes and put cross ply tyres on and put it against a car with stock brakes and slick, it will out brake the supercar.

People who go and put big brakes on their car and say they stop in a shorter distance need to understand the laws of physics. The rubber on the road is the major difference in stopping distance.

2 main issues annoy me.

People who mod their power to a massive amount, yet leve the brakes stock, and the poeple who put massive brakes on and keep the crappy stock rubber, thinking they have reduced their stoppping distance. Our cars do not require masive racing brakes, but a balance between suitable brakes and good rubber.

For some reason people think the tyres are the last thing to be changed and do not understand the true result of their actions. I have seen people put 8/4 pot calipers on their cars, yet use crap tyres and live in dreamland that their car stops better.

I am NOT saying that brakes are a bad investestment, but it need to be clarified by accurate information.

My car has 6/4 Brembos and I have upgraded the rubber to the F1 asymetric rubber as it stick far better than the stock Dunlops, this HAS reduced my braking distance, but not due to the brakes, but the tyres.

[phatal]

Are those slots facing the wrong way or is it just me? Ie the right hand side rotors are on the left hand side?

[Guest XR09]

Kewl Zap

Was not having a go.

I have always been taught that suspension plays the biggest role and it's what I teach most of my students.

And I was lucky enough to be taught to drive by guys like Barry Seton, Greg Hansford and co at great old circuts like Amaroo and Oran. My dads mates were guys like Bruce Burn who took me under their wing, and taught me set up. Unfortunately my heart was always in bikes.

With our roads and most aftermarket suspension set way to stiff for the road, typically SSL's, a great tire just cant cope if it's not planted on the road, like if your shock is so far down in it's dampening that you are into the last stack of your shims and it packs up and tramps, or your alignment is out, or too much neg in the rears.

So yep the tires do a huge part of the stopping. If they can work to their potential.

I bought a cheap,(well cheap compared to my old two piece rims ) Rim and tire package. The Nexens lasted a month on the front before I threw them in the dam and bought pilots for the front. Not a good choice either for mine. great bike tires but personally I think their car tires are shoite for the $ you pay.

I think we are getting into the same thing as what air box, exhaust is better. It's all a combination. They all have to work together for any to work to their true potential.

Funnily being a bike rider confidence plays a huge part in going fast and the tire is the most important part of gaining confidence on a bike.

And lastly I am in the process of Building an FG. First thing was the tires and rims and then more tires, then coil overs, re shimmed by me and a friend so they work under 100kmp/h and bushes, then the 6/4 brembo's. I have it set so I can hold it pretty well WOT in a 25m circle and it does not push or over steer. Just gets into a nice 4 wheel drift. And is still rock solid in high speed corners like turn 1 & 2 at QR. So now it's ready to have a built motor in it.

that's how I have always been taught it should be done.

Trying to remember which bag was best in the wet, not sure but I think it was the goodyear eagles. but the advantage they had was not worth the extra bucks they were going for back then. It was about three years ago.

Maybe it was the price but the Maxxis really impressed me.

And your still running stock shocks and springs???? Bet your upper control arm bushes are shagged already. And your radial. Do you get that shudder from your brembo's?? I put 2mm wide washers either side of my upper control buhes when I fitted them as the brackets are tinny and sharp and I wanted to protect my bushes. happily I never got the shudder and the bushes are 10,000 old now. Think its a better fix than the one 5mm wide one FPV is pushing

Edited 18/01/10 09:57 AM by XR09

[A300srt8]

I understand that there are many factors into braking distance, like suspension, tyre pressures, driver, etc.

I am ONLY saying that bigger brakes do not decrease the stopping distance, if everything else is the same.

Bosco:

Unless you have done a stopping test with both sets of brakes, then you are also not qualified to pass a factual judgment.

I do know that what I am saying is true and not judging it off my bum-o-meter.

XR09:

While shocks and springs do have a bearing on braking performance, tyres are the main factor...FACT

The Reason the R8 outbraked the F6 was due to the better tyres they put on the HSV's in comparison to the FPV's.

This is also the reason they generally win any track testing.

so basically what you are saying if you had 2 cars both with the same tyres weather there crap or quality tyres and 1 had stock brakes and 1 had "performance" brakes they would both stop at the same distance

[ZAP]

yep, that is exactly what I am saying, if we are talking about a single stop from 100km/h. Several stops fromt hat speed would show a noticable increase in the stock brakes stoping distance due tot he heat buildup. I guess this issue is just like the plane on the treadmill argument. The plane will take off, although people cannot comprehend the physics of the whole concept.

My Brembos have not shuddered since Ford put the stiffer upper control arm bushes.

[Guest XR09]

I think zap was stating @ around 100kmp/h or normal driving conditions. Which is probably right.

Big brakes are for big speed. And or constant hard braking.

The 6/4 Brembo's we use are for road use and track days. Not competition use. Well I would think not.

Mashing the anchors from say 200k's plus, the big brakes will haul you up faster, as the stds will start to fade after about 5 seconds of full braking. And at 200 with std's you are probably only half way there to a complete stop after 4 to 5 seconds.

A bit like coil overs. They come into their own after 140kmp/h. Under 100 it's a compromise. Stiff, heavy and noisy. Over that speed and they are compliant, stable and confidence inspiring.

Hey Bossco how are you finding the Marangoni Mythos, they are the mythos aren't they.

On the pro's I am led to believe a great dry weather tire. With positive turn in. Good for big heavy taxis like we drive.

On the cons I have heard shoite in the wet, like really bad. And noisy. Plus the side walls don't take to ripple strips well, very soft.

PS I just changed to Penrite sin brake fluid. Its much lighter viscosity and has a 600c boiling point. Pedal feel is lighter and yep I like it.

Don't get it on your hands though, especially if you have a cut or scratch. Yow burnies

[Sprjenkins]

These aren't the actual calipers, just some old ones I'm using to have the mounts made up, but you get the idea, look just like this but newer

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s116/sprjenkins/Photo0029.jpg

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s116/sprjenkins/Photo0030.jpg

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s116/sprjenkins/Photo0031.jpg

[A300srt8]

I think zap was stating @ around 100kmp/h or normal driving conditions. Which is probably right.

Big brakes are for big speed. And or constant hard braking.

The 6/4 Brembo's we use are for road use and track days. Not competition use. Well I would think not.

Mashing the anchors from say 200k's plus, the big brakes will haul you up faster, as the stds will start to fade after about 5 seconds of full braking. And at 200 with std's you are probably only half way there to a complete stop after 4 to 5 seconds.

A bit like coil overs. They come into their own after 140kmp/h. Under 100 it's a compromise. Stiff, heavy and noisy. Over that speed and they are compliant, stable and confidence inspiring.

Hey Bossco how are you finding the Marangoni Mythos, they are the mythos aren't they.

On the pro's I am led to believe a great dry weather tire. With positive turn in. Good for big heavy taxis like we drive.

On the cons I have heard shoite in the wet, like really bad. And noisy. Plus the side walls don't take to ripple strips well, very soft.

PS I just changed to Penrite sin brake fluid. Its much lighter viscosity and has a 600c boiling point. Pedal feel is lighter and yep I like it.

The marangonis are good in the dry pritty much as you stated but good in the wet untill they get down to 1/2 depth then there a bit slippy but they do have crap side walls I have had 1 just split internally for ??? reason.I am looking at moving up the scale to match the rest of the cars setup but it all takes time and cash.

Don't get it on your hands though, especially if you have a cut or scratch. Yow burnies

The marangonis are good in the dry pritty much as you stated but good in the wet until they get down to 1/2 depth then there a bit slippy but when your pushing out 352kws at the wheels most tyres have a bit of issue with traction in the wet they do have crap side walls I have had 1 just split internally for ??? reason.I am looking at moving up the scale to match the rest of the cars setup but it all takes time and cash.My other xr6 falcon had 255/20 and 285 /20 yokahama advans sp and I really didnt feel a great amount of improvment between the two .it really struggled to get the traction but it was pushing 414 at the wheels with a etm setup but the boost didnt come as hard and the F6 due to the stock block