Free Spinning Turbo Fan

[xrt]

just curious if your fan seems to be spinning on its own, im assuming its not boosting at all?

[Caghan]

well when I heard the noises from the first day. it was actually boosting with no power loss. but ever sicne then I didnt actually put my foot down to see but when I turn the car off the fan seemed to be spinning for a long time on its own. the mechanic could spin the turbine with his fingers. im not sure if you can do that easily is something wasnt wrong.

[hoju04]

In my experience, it's quite normal for the turbine to continue spinning for about 20 seconds after the engine has been switched off. If my car is up to operating temp when switched off, the sound is barely audible. If the engine and turbo are cold when switched off, it sounds somewhat rougher/louder which is also apparently normal. If the sound is a grinding noise as opposed to a free spinning noise there may be issues.

The turbine should spin freely by hand. The middle of the turbo is essentially a shaft with a fan either end with a bearing pack in the middle. Watch this vid from about 3:30 to see what I mean

The bearing pack in the middle is the part will usually fail, which can eventually damage the intake and/or exhaust housing. The main culprit usually being a clogged filter in the turbo oil feed line. If your turbo is found to be stuffed you must check/remove/replace this filter or you will quickly damage the new turbo. You'll find a million threads in this section about this issue. I had the filter removed and had ETM's replacement oil feed line installed for peace of mind. http://www.fordxr6turbo.com/forum/Replacement-Turbo-Oil-Feed-Line-t45049.html&p=668494&hl=replacement%20oil%20feed%20line&fromsearch=1#entry668494

I would think you would need to bring the entire turbo over for assessment.

Another thing to check is to see how much play the turbine shaft has by grabbing the nut on the intake side and wiggling side to side and in/out. A millimetre or so side to side should be ok, but movement in/out can be a sign of trouble.

To answer your other questions: The stock BF turbo is Garrett GT35/40r, and you could replace it, or they can usually be rebuilt to save money if not too badly damaged. I'm not sure about suppliers/reconditioners in the Melbourne area, hopefully someone here can recommend one.

[Caghan]

thank you so much hoju04 you are a champ. look I couldnt take the turbo off so I found a specialist that would do this work. he is British and has been specializing in turbos for about 20 years. I took the car to him and he said he needed to open up the turbo before he could tell me anything. so I gave hom a couple of days. today my dad spoke to him and this is what he said. said that "there was no oil being fed to the turbo and the bearings have all gone dry making them useless. that was the loud noise coming from the turbo. the only reason why it didnt get totally destroyed was because it is water cooled. he blamed the "no oil being fed" on the oil filter which was on the car. since I couldnt get an original oil filter to fit the car, they have found me one that fit another car (I dont know if that makes a difference or hes just trying to take me for what I got). so he said he couldnt rebuild it and he needs to bring "a part" from Britan and its gonna cost somewhere around 3000EUROS. he also said he needs to open up the engine to check the pistons to see if there is any damage done because of no oil. he said possibly the oil pump is gone.

this guy seems to know alot and he has overwhelmed me with his technical sh1t.

so my question is. what do I do?? he will be sending me an email tonight so he can tell me exactly what the problem is seeing as though I am translating what he said through my dad.

[Caghan]

Just got an email back from the mechanic. here it is

"

Dear Caghan, thank you for the e mail.

I have now stripped parts of the engine and removed the turbo from the vehicle, the turbo has been completely stripped to assess its condition,

Unfortunately the turbine in the (hot part) of the turbo has destroyed itself due to lack of lubrication, the noise that you could hear when you spin the turbine by hand is the broken shaft that connects the turbine to the compressor the (cold part) of the turbo.

This is the reason that the compressor was spinning freely, the cause of this is like I said the fact that you have been using filters that have not allowed the turbo shaft(bearings etc ) to receive any kind of lubrication, further your turbo cannot be rebuilt as the centre section has partially melted the bushes in the housing.

Also the second problem you now have is the supply pipe is not pumping oil, this has to be investigated and rectified , if this second problem is not diagnosed and solved correctly then the problem will reoccur again when you fit a replacement turbo.

I hope that you can understand this, if you have any problems then please do not hesitate to contact me again,

Your father has been down to see me this evening before returning home I have shown him the parts that I have mentioned above, I think that he understands what I have shown him, of course your father wants to try to keep the costs down to a minimum, I will do my best to find you the best deal I can, but you must understand that these parts are very specialized and do not come cheap,

I am also waiting to hear from my contacts in England if we can buy direct from the Garrett supplier, I will hopefully have some good news for you in the next couple of days, in the mean time I will try to save some time, so I will continue to solve the oiling problem that you have, this could possibly mean removing the sump from the engine, this must be done as I have to be sure that once I give the car back to you, I will have the confidence that it will not happen again along with my guarantee.

Please confirm by telephone if you agree with my plan of action, regards steve. "

what do we think?

[senna_T]

Hey mate, sounds like a classic symptom of the oil supply line getting clogged as a result of the dodgy little filter that is in the side of the block.

Here is a link to the kit you can buy from Oz: http://www.fordxr6turbo.com/forum/Replacement-Turbo-Oil-Feed-Line-t45049.html

You will need a new turbo, that is obvious, however tell your mechanic there is a good chance this supply line filter will be the cause of the blockage. Tell him to remove the line and the adaptor from the block so he can inspect the small gauze filter inside. If this is blocked tell him to remove it and order one of these braided kits from ETM.

Another cause of the lines getting blocked is not allowing the car to cool after being driven hard. If the car is driven hard or for an extended period of time then shut off, the heat in the engine bay can "cook" the oil left in the lines and create the blockage.

Hope this helps!

[Dagabond]

I think he's taking it a little to far removing/stripping the engine...oil screen filter is a known issue with the Turbo's, there are a number of threads on this round the site.

[Caghan]

the fact that the turbo sh1t itself after only 3 years is a little disappointing to me and the fact that it cannot be rebuilt is a little bad too in terms of funds. so there is no point bringing the turbo to Australia for a rebuild is there coz there is no chance that it can be fixed right??

also. is there a chance that the oil pump IS faulty??

like I cant goto him with wrong assumptions. if I buy a turbo and give it to him to fit (which will be cheaper coz hell probably charge more for one) he wont cover it under his warranty because he didn't see where the turbo was from and everything.

so my question is. if I get a brand new turbo, and the oil lines, and a genuine filter, can I fit all that on without expert help? I know how to do the oil change and changing the line doesnt seem that hard just wondering if it needs anything else like tuning the turbo or something?

[senna_T]

There should be no issues with the oil pump, if there was you would get a low oil pressure light and warning tone coming up on the dash

The sensor for the oil pressure warning is at the same point the turbo oil feed line starts, so if it was related you would know about it.

Try and get in contact with GCG Turbochargers here in Australia, they should be able to ship to you and get you all the parts you need.

There are plenty of How To threads on the forum, have a look in the appropriate section and you should be able to do it yourself.

[Caghan]

hi everyone again. its been a while but my car is still in the shop getting repaired. I came to oz and brought back a turbo with me bought from garrett for around 2.5k.

anyway I gave it to him and recently he had this to say.

  Quote

I have taken the sump off the engine so that we could find the problem with the oiling system, it turns out that 1/. The oil pump was damaged 2./ the relief valve was sticking 3/. The oil you were using was not synthetic oil for this application 4./ the oil filter you were using is not at all compatable for this vehicle, and 5./ the bearings are a little worn and scored, all this has happened because you are using oil and filters that are no use on this car, this is a little more serious than you may possibly understand,

but I will try to explain as best as I can ;- As the bearings wear the clearances between them get bigger the bigger the clearances the more oil pressure you will lose, this is why oil pressure is a good way to determine if an engine is in good condition or not, when the bearings wear out or get very scored you virtually lose all oil pressure and you seriously damage or seize the engine, now as you can see if your oil pressure is very low how do you possibly expect the new turbo to last ? well the answer to that is, it simply will not. This is the reason I have taken the sump off the engine. I have managed to rebuild your old oil pump along with the relief valve etc, I have put Mobil 1 full synthetic oil in the engine, I have started the engine and when hot it is much better but still not to my satisfaction, really the best solution is

to have all the bearings replaced, but this is best done by removing the engine from the car, I have located a new oil pressure gauge and will be fitting this very soon, I am still playing with different ways of boosting your oil pressure but don’t put any money on this idea as it may not prove to be too successful, please prepare yourself to at least be ready to replace the crankshaft bearings so that I can at least give you some kind of guarantee, The other good news is that the Turbo you gave me is back on the car, I have fitted all new fasteners and banjoe unions and gaskets etc, so as not to have any problems with leakages etc, or pressure loss. Will contact you again soon,

so does this sound alright? also what is the normal oil pressure for the XR6Turbo?

thanks