Recovering 4 Cylinder User - Helpful Members Needed!

[ryawil0]

Hi all -

I'm Ryan. Im 32yo from Canberra. I stumbled onto this site while researching an imminent purchase of a used XR6 (Turbo or other).

I'm new to the whole XR6 scene as I have always owned 4 cylinder Jap cars!! *gasp*

Yes I know what people are thinking, but the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem right? The second step is to learn from your mistakes and move forward and take a path that hopefully leads to some sweet homegrown engineering!

So that's why I'm here......... I think I need some help!

Although I have some experience driving Fords (my dad worked for a Ford dealership through my childhood and teenage years and always had company cars) I am pretty clueless to the world of the XR6 Turbo and standard XR6's.

I guess what I'm asking is what the hell do I go for? I have been looking around for the last month or so at dealerships and on the net and am really no closer to making a decision. Im pretty cautious by nature.

I fell in love with a White 2004 BA at a dealership recently but it was sold within a few days of being on the lot. I hadnt considered a Turbo until I started really having a good look around on the net and after speaking to my insurer I found that I would be able to afford it without too much problem. I also had the opportunity to drive one about a week ago, which was a sweet experience.

I've figured out I'm looking for a BA or BF in the 2003-2005 range as my budget is about $16k-17k. I know I want the leather interior and would like a black, white or envy green. I also know that I want a stock car with no major modifications (I'm well and truly over getting stung by the Insurance companies for too many mods).

Other than the above, I havent figured much else out.

I have a tonne of questions though:

- Should I be buying a turbo at all or should I just go the standard XR6? What are the pro's and con's besides the major increase in performance from the turbo?

- If I buy a standard XR6 that has a fair amount of KM's on it (to suit my budget) will it be better than buying a turbo that has similar KM's on the clock in terms of reliability?

- I will have this car along time as we have a baby due soon - so are XR6 turbo's well built enough to go past 200,000km and beyond and still be reliable?

- Can the turbo's take alot of medium to hard driving? How reliable are they and are there known common problems?

- How can you even tell if the car has been thrashed to begin with?

- How do I avoid the worthless cars and pick myself up something that I'm going to enjoy for years to come? I have read here on the forums that there are ex chasers and people faking log books and servicing details among other pitfalls.

I am extremely excited at the prospect of owning one of these cars, but I really want to avoid jumping in too fast without first hearing from people who have been there already.

Any advice or thoughts on your experiences will be most welcome and very much appreciated!

Thanks and kind regards,

Ryan

[Stazza_Brendan]

If your keeping the car fairly stock, got for the best factory model you can. Manual or Auto?

Id be looking for a Mk2 BF in either manual or auto if I was you, Im hoping to go through with the purchase of a MK2 BF as its one of the better factory models for the price.

[tab]

- Should I be buying a turbo at all or should I just go the standard XR6? What are the pro's and con's besides the major increase in performance from the turbo?

Definitely turbo, otherwise you’ll be crying yourself to sleep every night. Depending on the model the XR6T may have different suspension/transmission, and the only con is increased fuel consumption - but if you have a bit of control over the right foot or do allot of long-distance cruisng the difference would be negligible.

- If I buy a standard XR6 that has a fair amount of KM's on it (to suit my budget) will it be better than buying a turbo that has similar KM's on the clock in terms of reliability?

If anything it would be the contrary, at high kms the turbo would be the main point of concern (engine-wise) unless it has a perfect service history with frequent oil changes and/or the inline turbo oil feed filter changed/removed/replaced. But don’t let this deter you, provided everything is looked after then it’s no different to the taxis you see roaming around that have been round the clock once or twice.

- I will have this car along time as we have a baby due soon - so are XR6 turbo's well built enough to go past 200,000km and beyond and still be reliable?

See above, quite a few on here that are beyond 200K and still going strong, a fair whack of them modified in the extreme.

- Can the turbo's take alot of medium to hard driving? How reliable are they and are there known common problems?

No issues unique to the turbo models (other than obviously potential turbo failure), same platform as everything else.

- How can you even tell if the car has been thrashed to begin with?

Can’t really, unless there are noticeable rattles and noises. General physical condition would probably be the best indicator of the owner’s level of mechanical sympathy.

- How do I avoid the worthless cars and pick myself up something that I'm going to enjoy for years to come? I have read here on the forums that there are ex chasers and people faking log books and servicing details among other pitfalls.

Same as for any other vehicle I guess, can all come down to pot-luck. Only buying something with a valid log book which will have all the details of previous owners can circumvent the chaser issue.

Take your time finding one as there are plenty coming and going, don't just grab the first one you come across as there's bound to be another one just around the corner.

Definitely go for the BF if you can, both auto and manual have better transmissions over the BA and are overall a better vehicle.

[Guest XR09]

This is a turbo site. So everyone is going to say get the turbo.

Personaly I wouldn't be buying a turbo with more than 50,000 k's on it, unless I had another 10 thou to rebuild it. It could go for another 100,000 with no major problems, or it could go bang. It's a lottery on 2nd hand cars. And I need my car for work so #1 priority is reliability.

But in saying this if your dad has experience and maybe a contact at ford somewhere then you could rebuild or fix it yourself for a lot less.

N/A's can go forever, some taxis go 500,000k's without taking the head off, apparently. I have had XT's, XW's, XY's, XB's, 's, XF's in the 6 and never had a problem with them. They go and go and would be one of the most rugged and reliable motors around.

The 6 was designed in 1957 and put out around 80hp.

There is always pro's and con's. More power, less life. More cost all round on the T.

You say "go hard" ??? from lights to lights or do you prefer corners. ???

It seems from your situation, you having a kid and need the car to be a cheap reliable transport and a bit of fun, and the fact you want leather and probably premium sound etc. I am thinking a good n/a 05 premium 6sp auto and spend your change on a good suspension set up. Save the insurance premium over the Turbo and when you have the time and cash build a strong reliable turbo and drop it in. Or trade up to the FG turbo.

So many unexpected costs come with kids and they have no warrenty the little buggers.

But if your heart is set on the T then get the T, get one with as low k's as you can. Take it for a drive and treat it like shoite, listen for drive train slap. Get your dad to go over it and MAKE sure it has a full service history.

Nothing worse for mine than having a toy that spends more time in the shop/shed than on the road. Dont buy a danforth, lol something that holds you back in life. Your kid will give you more joy than anything you have ever had in life before.

N/A or T your still getting the best Aussie car made.

[ryawil0]

Hey fellas -

Thanks for the quick responses. Some good advice so far and definitely some things to think about.

For those who asked:

- I'll be looking at an auto.

- As for the "hard driving", I just meant general "go to woah" AND cornering.

So the BF MK II has a better transmission and gearbox etc than the BA's? Is it a huge difference or negligible?

Thanks again guys!

Kind regards,

Ryan

[Guest XR09]

I think the ZF (6sp auto) is the same across all years. It's that good. Why fix whats not broken.

The BF was meant to be a better build quality over the BA. And a little more stable in high speed corners.

The BF MK2 has better rods and maybe valve springs. But I think the BF2's are still out of your reach with what you want.

Ps dont forget you need a great song for the birth of your kid, it's just as important as naming it I reckon.

If life is ever getting you down, that song will always lift you.

And congrats mate. Well done. new kid on the way and a new car. Boys heaven.

[tab]

BA = 4-speed auto. Still a pretty good box but got nothin' on the 6-speed ZF that was fitted from BF onwards

[Skidude]

Drive the NA XR6 and the Turbo back to back.

I was in the same situation a few months back, although I was looking for a demo/low klms FG.

If I didn't drive the turbo I would have probably signed for a new NA XR6. But honestly driving them back to back

the NA felt like a slug. I know it wasn't, but that's just how it felt.

Yes, there is more that can go wrong, but the performance will put a smile on your dial.

[EvilDaifu]

Buy a turbo - doesn't matter if it's a BA - so long as its a T. I've owned a NA XR6 and it was a good reliable car - but it was bland. If you want to have some fun - definitely the T. Life is short man - and the BA XR6T's are bargains if you ask me. I've had a BA XR6, BF ZF-6 Speed XR6T (farrkin loved that car) and now currently in a BA XR6T (cos of the budget and the previous 2 XRs were company cars). To be honest - I like the look of the BA XR6T. You can pick up a leather one with 6 CD player for under $18k (I know because I did). Here was my shopping list in order of priority if it helps you:

- Try to get everything you want on the 2nd hand car you are buying - fitting afterwards means you are paying today's market rates for labour and parts and it just aint worth it on a car that old.

- BA XR6T at least 2004 (not a 2003 or a 2002 and had to be a turbo for sure - you'll regret it for the amount of money that you will spend - it's just more fun and the boost surge and deep exhaust burble ALWAYS brings a smile to my face on my T. The T also has a limited slip differential as a factory standard - good for fast cornering

- Auto so my misses can drive it as well

- kms had to be under 100k - didn't want to buying anything over that magical number. From my experience with cars - go the latest model you can afford and then go the least number of kms - not the other way around cos no matter if your have a 2002 model that's only done 50,000kms - it's still a bleedin 8 year old car and it will show - plastics/paint bubble and crack, stuff breaks off, just old age. Cos I was lookin for a car under $20k, at the time, I could only afford a BA under 100,000kms with the other things I was after (see below).

- Leather Seats (must have as I hate cloth seats - especially cos the kids keep staining them with drinks and stuff - with leather it just wipes off - something to consider especially in your case

- Tow bar (must have - otherwise known as the poor mans reverse sensing parkers )But really handy if you have to tow a trailer of refuse to he local tip - get the tow bar - it will may your purchase more versatile.

- 6 CD Player (optional - got sick of changing out the single CD) usually comes with premium sound (includes color ICC display) in the BAs (get a nice sub woofer and the the best factory sub woofers I am told are the ones Ford first fitted when the BA XR6T's came out - after that Ford I am told kept substituting cheaper and cheaper sub woofers - but I am not sure about that - more heresay than hard facts I think - my sub-woofer works fine though)

- color (substitute in your preferences here - mine were blueprint (my first XR6) and black (my BF - but beware farrkin hard to keep smick cos the dust shows up easily but straight after a wash and polish beats anything in my opinion) Ended up buying red - was a bit wary at the time but farrk love walking up my red XR6T every day - have to keep pinchin myself that it's my car - it really stands out !!!

- Sun roof - always wanted one but couldn't find a 2nd car with one and the above features at the time I was looking. I won't fit one after market becaues I just don't want someone cutting a hole in my roof after market - not only is it a potential sore spot for leaks but it also structurally weakens the car (not saying a factory fitted one doesn't weaken the car but at least it is done in the factory to Ford's design specifications).

- Manual says my heart but my brain says auto. The misses would hate me cos she couldn't drive it. Didn't stop me from looking though So you will see auto at the top of my list - once again - trying to be versatile and to let other family members be able to drive it - also being auto helped get it over the line as acceptable family car in the eyes of my misses.

I found www.carsales.com.au the best and the early bird catches the worm - so look EVERY day - first thing in the morning and late at night about 11pm cos people usually put it on the web for sale when they have some spare time after work. I know from experience cos I bought my last 2 cars off www.carsales.com.au (and sold my old Audi on it easily). Best because the pictures were good and allowed you to easily and conveniently browse a list sorted on Year of Make. I guess I don't have to tell you this, but I sorted on Ford / Falcon / under $20k and put XR6 Turbo in the keywords to only show up the Ford Falcon XR6Ts then sorted on latest Year of Make so I was always looking at the latest models for my budget at the top of the list.

Take your time - look at as many XRs as you can so you can start to get a feel for what is right and what is wrong with a car. I checked out at least 8 or 10 in a face to face meetings with the sellers before settling on my current one. Of those, I probably only test drove maybe 3 of them. Some I just walked away from without a test drive because they looked good on paper but up close in the skin - they didn't appeal to me. Try to visit the seller at his home - if they want to meet at some public place be suspicious - could be the car is hot or they are aiming to actually steal your car when you swap keys (though I think that's a bit extreme but I am told it has happened). I generally prefer them to come on the test drive with me cos I don't want to leave anything with the seller that's mine - also helps avoids allegations afterwards of damage to their car whilst on the test drive. Believe me - it has happened to me - when I was selling my Audi, the buyer damaged my car and it was only because I was sitting in it at the time that I knew he did it (saved me a lot of hassles afterwards).

So things to look out for?

Before you go to the face to face meeting with the seller:

1. Check your home State registration centre for the engine number and serial number of the car with the rego you are inspecting - many have this as a free online service. I know VicRoads do it for free - they also tell you if there car has been written off, if finance is still owing on it (it's encumbered) and what year/make/model/color it is (to double check that you have been supplied with a valid rego). Make sure the seller owns it out-right or has paid off what he owes so when you buy it - you will have clear title - otherwise you take on his financial burden after paying your upfront sum of money!

Visual Inspection:

1. Bring a good camera and visit during the day in good sun light. Don't do an inspection at dusk or at night. Take photos of the car to help you remember things. I didn't do this myself but it occured to me I should have. I however, did take photos of the car after I agreed to buy it and the seller took it off to do the roadworthy - didn't want him substituting inferior tyres and stuff - it happens.

2. Check the engine number and serial numbers match up with what you have found on the web from your home State car registration authority.

3. Feel the car - has the seller had it running for some time before you arrive. Could mean he knows it needs to be warmed up for some reason. Best to inspect the car when it is cold and to let the seller start and you stand behind to watch for any white for blue puffs of smoke from the exhaust. That is not normal.

4. Any panels out of alignment? Could be crash damage that may have been repaired if so. Check the alignment of the front bumper in particular as that won't be straight horizontal if the car has had a front to rear altercation of some sort.

5. Obvious signs of damage repair - look for mis-matched paint, uneven surfaces (due to putty) on the panels, lift the bonnet and check the panel screws in the engine bay (do they look like they have been undone and done up or are they untouched), over spray from paint on repaired panels.

6. For leather seats - check the drivers seat for excessive sag from Aussie big bums Especially sags on the side closest to the center transmission tunnel for some reason I have noticed. The car I bought was okay because mostly a lady drove it and she had a petite bum I guess (though I never saw it in detail )

7. Check that all electrics work - especially the fogs cos they are like $300 each to replace !!! Foggy's too easily crack cos they are close to the ground and can get stones and stuff hitting them from the road.

8. Check the engine bay for non standard parts - good sign that some sort of modification has taken place - you'll know what is standard and what is not by looking at a lot of cars. Also check for shiny new pipe metal clamps - suggests that the piping has recently been changed around - maybe a modded car returned to stock? I suspect mine was modded but can't tell for sure mainly because of this. It's definitely stock now right now though.

9. Check for oil leaks on the sellers driveway. Not always a good indication of an issue but could be if it's the only car the seller owns or it's the usual spot he parks it in.

On the test drive:

1. Rattles and clunking when reversing slowly. Don't worry this is normal for BAs (actually for every XR6 I have owned ) but excessive could mean alot of screws and bolts/nuts need tightening.

2. When driving above 80km/h does the car shudder when applying the brakes or just driving along? Probably the well known brake shudder afflicting most BAs (and a lot of BFs - though my BF never had brake shudder that I noticed anyway). Don't worry - can usually be easily fixed by putting in new Racebrake RB24 pads and dba 4000 Slotted Rotors (a common and proven combination) on the front only (as they are the ones that will be shuddering generally). When I bought my BA I knew after the first test drive that I would be upgrading the brakes - but I knew that was a relatively cheap thing to do at $382 for both front pads and rotors and I actually wanted better brakes than the Ford factory fitted PBRs.

3. Acceleration - when you put the foot down is the car response and spool up quickly to get that turbo surge? If it feels like a slug then there is probably something wrong and could be mechanically expensive to fix (though not always the case but I didn't know enough mechancially so erred on the side of probably more expensive to fix). You can only tell this by doing lots of test drives. I guess my experience from my BF XR6T also helped - I sorted of knew what was normal and what didn't feel right.

4. Take note of any unusual noises when idle at the lights or acclerating. Could mean an engine or fuel pump issue to deal with later.

Costs (probably don't need to tell you this but this is for real other newbies who may read this in the future):

1. Don't forget registering it will cost you. Budget for about an extra $2000 on a $20k if you are in Victoria.

2. Make sure you get the seller to do a roadworthy if you are in Victoria (it's actually a legal requirement here but in NSW it's not). The roadworthy on mine cost $500 because of the new windscreen that they had to put in cos of a stone chip.

3. Don't buy interstate if you can help it - as tempting as it may be. You will have to pay for registering in your home State and pay a full year on the rego whereas if you bought in your home State, you get to continue to use what's left on the rego and there are no brand new registering costs.

After you have bought it:

1. Don't take your car to Ford for servicing. Maybe use one of the tuners listed on this site. I know I plan to take my car to either HPF or Nizpro for servicing when my first one is due. Have not done so yet - so can't really comment on this apart from don't take your car to Ford for servicing. It's most likely to be out of warranty so you will be paying for everything and in my opinion the Ford service centres I have taken my car so far are not that good. Don't get me wrong - there are some good ones out there - I just have not been to one of them in the past 2 XRs that I have had. I only used them because my past 2 XRs were company cars and so I was compelled to take them to a Ford service centre to be serviced.

2. Go on some cruises on this site and find out heaps more about your car - quite a few Ford company people own XRs and come along on the cruises - can sometimes get good insider tips. Alot of the other experienced people on this site can also give you good hints and suggestions - much easier to get that face to face on a cruise though

Good luck in your search Ryan

Edited 29/12/09 02:15 PM by EvilDaifu

[arjey]

Hi Ryan,

Welcome to the forum dude! Don't worry.. It's not that bad driving a 4cyl around.. I have one for an everyday car! Cheap on petrol mate!!!

EvilDaifu pretty much just summed it up. If you have driven a turbo car before then you would know what to look for in terms of acceleration etc. Dont just go out and enquire/test drive just 1 and buy it. Shop around and way up your pro's and con's with buying from other dealers plus with models and pro's and con's - you got to look into insurace and other expenses.

Best of luck with the shopping dude! Post pics after the purchase!