Who Wants To See A Real Production Series.

[Mat]

^Were those 25,000kms done at full tilt? Didn;t think so...

Think about your own car. A fast strap up and down a mountain road will see your brakes go squishy, your clutch spongy or your auto will begin to complain during shifts, your under bonnet temps will climb rapidly, your intercooler is heat soaked, the interior floor is hot from the exhaust, the steering is feeling heavy, the radiator is now struggling to keep it all cool and you've only just started to get excited.

Now how long do you think parts will last under these circumstances? A full 6 hours flat out? Sure two laps will be no probs, but after that, they will begin to fail. Ask any turbo owner who has done track work, you get about 5 or 6 laps in and you have to stop to let it all cool or otherwise risk failure of parts. Remember the days of HSVs power steering pumps bleeding in protest after 2-3 laps? These cars are simply not design to withstand the stress of track work. Don't forget that even the FPV R-Spec shares the same power-steering pump as your everyday taxi....

Production series would be great, but expect to pay $100k plus for a factory race-spec car.

Agreed.

I once did 4 semi quick laps of the Nurburgring, immediately after each other in a Swift Sport (gutted, caged, upgraded brakes, race rubber and it was ,faultless) and there is no way in the world my XR6T with the [hypothetical] best brakes and suspension could come close to replicating that. I'd bet money that it wouldn't last the 4 laps / 85kms.

Run of the mill performance fords and holdens are great as general street cruisers / weekend toys for the occasionally track day but no good in real competition.

Bugger the production classes, just bring back a hi-po RWD group B class and throw them on some street circuits and twisties and watch the interest skyrocket

Edited 01/12/09 05:11 PM by Mat

[Guest XR09]

Well I really am glad to see that so many would like to see and support a production class.

I started this topic as a question, but I already knew the answer, and was hoping for this sort of outcome.

V8 supercars is in trouble. That is a fact. If you are not in the top 6 teams you are not making enough money to survive. IE Skaiffe. So yes while the body is saying this and promising that, what good is it if you have only two types of cars. and only 6 teams, and more than likely two builders. This I got from a team manager.

A true production race will appeal to a far greater audience than the V8SC. It will have more makes of cars, so more teams, more jobs and more oppertunities for the young upcoming driver. It will be cheaper to own a team and factory backing will increase.

And we will get better, safer and faster toys that last to play with.

FACT that's how we got the GTHO the A9X mmm pitty I can think of more aussie built Expensive Daewoo legends than ford so I will leave that alone lol....... but hey when Ford do cave in and give us one it's a gooden. lol

Imagine the talent we have today in V8SC in cars like we drive, let loose with them. It would be a hoot, they would be more sideways, more wreckless. Half the field would be in an all in punch up at turn four before the race was halfway through. Imagine Russel Ingal getting three weeks ban for starting the fight.

[Mat]

To throw a spanner in the works, would it actually get the support ($$$ from people coming to the events, factory backing etc etc) it needs to, to stay alive, improve and be entertaining. On a forum of car enthusiasts it might work, but to the general public, I dont know and that's quiet sad

I have never been to Bathurst (one day I will drive the taxi around their in anger) but the 12hour race would have to be FAR more intresting and entertaining than the supertaxi's at Bathurst yet how many spectators does it get?

Just need to look at spectators for Targa Tasmania. Undoubtably the best, challenging, roads in Australia, awesome selection of cars to keep everyone happy, lots of action, its dirt cheap as a spectator and how many people go watch.

In the main towns you get a few (probably cause they have nothing else to do..) but on the fast stages with lots of vantage spots, you dont see all that many.

Sadly, the V8SC are pretty boring but if they die off, the Australian motorspot scene is in trouble.

Edited 02/12/09 05:54 AM by Mat

[HIRO F6]

Mat, I agree with you. If V8's die in Australia it would be a sad day for Australian motorsport and I'd be suprised if anyone fills the void. As others have mentioned, there is quality production car racing in this country already yet they dont draw big crowds. Most people want to go back to the "good old days" but the funny thing is the second most popular

XR09, I dont know which Team Manager you've been speaking to, but your so called "facts" are far from facts. Skaifey didnt go broke, he simply had outstanding bills with TWR so the deal was he handed over his part ownership of HRT to Walkingshaw. Skaifey is a very wealthy bloke and that wealth has been created through the sport.

Majority of the V8 teams bought their license for around $200,000 and now they are worth over $1,000,000. That's not a loss. Are the Kelly Brothers broke?? Hell no, is Paul Morris running out of sponsorship dollars?? Not a chance. Is FPR expanding their operations in 2010, yes they are. Are there new teams coming on board every year, you better believe there is. Will there be new manufacturers joining within 5 years, there certainly will be.

Are V8's in trouble....... YOU WISH!

[Guest XR09]

That's what I am kinda saying

It is in trouble. If the big boys are really feeling it.......how do you think the rest of the paddock is doing.

Our national superbike championship had no major sponser last season.

This GFC has only just begun and we have hardly felt it as a nation .... yet

America has to refinance 300 trillion dollars in short term loans they have coming up/outstanding in the next twelve months.

Thier GDP (gross domestic product) or what they make and sell is 600 billion per year.

They have already sent most European nations broke with thier unfranked mortgages. So they are not going to roll over the loans.

The american dollar is down over 12% making the loans 12% and more dearer.

I am not blowing smoke out my ass. This is all public information, you can google it. or change the chanel from the simpsons.

Things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.

Thank god we live here in an almost self suficcient country. In 1977 we had a 17% excess of crude. We still do we just dont use it.

Sorry deep I know. But you should know cause the pollies are not going to tell you.

All we might have left is a few XR's and ss's belting around the hill

[HIRO F6]

All we might have left is a few XR's and ss's belting around the hill

And that's still enough to put a smile on my face and a "piss on Holden" sticker on the back window of my Ford

[tmac450]

Mat, I agree with you. If V8's die in Australia it would be a sad day for Australian motorsport and I'd be suprised if anyone fills the void. As others have mentioned, there is quality production car racing in this country already yet they dont draw big crowds. Most people want to go back to the "good old days" but the funny thing is the second most popular

How many times does it have to be said. V8 Supercars only get the crowds because of the immense amount of marketing (similar to why Expensive Daewoo can sell inferior cars). Production cars don't receive a fraction of the marketing, the last few 12 hours didn't even rate a mention on most of the sport shows. Also, production car racing lost a hell of a lot of appeal when they first started letting Porche modify their cars, and pegged back the Rx7s, the final straw was allowing Expensive Daewoo to enter their 7 litre, V8 Supercar built Monaros.

I know quite a few people, family included who used to watch Aussie toruing cars, but lost interest when it became a two horse race. A properly devised, production based series with the same amount of promotion as the V8s, with V8s included simply has to be better.

[HIRO F6]

So why would anyone want to take that promotion and marketing away from V8 Supercars if they've been doing all the hard work promoting Australian motorsport? Unfortunately you need money to be involved in motorsport so promotions and marketing is just as important as the bloke that sits in the seat.

The amount of non motorsport people the Sydney 500 attracted to their event on the weekend is a testament to the hard work they have done in the last 10 years. Compare the 2008 ARDC promoted round of the V8's at Eastern Creek which got 25,000 through the gates to the 180,000 people that went to Homebush (promoted by V8 Supercars) and its a no brainer. V8's is a thriving brand in International Motorsport. What im trying to say is theres more to making motorsport popular then just the cars each teams build.

Maybe you and your family need to give V8's another chance rather then just bagging it for being a 2 horse race. Most modern V8 fans now support a driver rather then a manufacturer and theres 29 of them. I remember when Group A series went to Perth and Tasmania with only 11 cars because there was no money to fund the sport. But hey, there were 6 manufacturers then so you probably would have enjoyed it more.

Edited 07/12/09 06:47 AM by HIRO F6

[Guest XR09]

Hiro what you are saying is dead right

V8SC is world class. Probibly close to the best door to door racing in the world. The trouble is... only we know the cars. The teams and drivers.

Just look at the O/S drivers that come here, they do well but the local talent is as good as it gets.

V8SC did well O/S, but the cost of playing the game has become extreme for the return to the teams.

Lets just hope the TV exec's keep running replays of shoite so we can still get V8SC live from them.

Most other countries capital cities have more people than our whole country. Ya gotta love that.

We as in Aus needs new punter friendly tracks. Better camping, better food and drink supply, Toilets etc. There's nothing like a weekend at the track. Phillip Island, Bathurst and eastern creek are world class and always bring out the best races.

But places ......well I would rather the beaten up old lakeside to QR any day. And wasnt QR designed by drivers???? ( cab drivers)

2 horse race, mmm maybe 1 1/4 if you add up the parts