Surge Tanks

[Dillz]

You'd be lucky if 1 in 10 FG XR's with standard turbo have one, most tuners agree you don't even have to upgrade the stock pump let alone add a surge tank. I'll upgrade the stock pump but that's it for 320.

[f6mark]

like headsex said. anything over 300rwk u should have a surge&044..

[daztbo]

Yep every tuner I have ever spoken to also says anything over 300 should have a surge tank lol that's why I got one

[RAP1D]

Running around 300kw on the stock pump is fine, but it's also going to working close to its limits, most of the time you'll get away with it and not have any dramas.

Then there's other times when the tank might get a bit low, you push the car hard around a long sweeping corner, the pump struggles to pick up fuel for a second or two , fuel pressure goes down and fuel mixtures lean out for a few seconds... The motor most likely won't blow up right there and then, but have this happen a few more times and some of the damage is already done.

The same thing happens on hard launchs and under hard breaking, hard acceleration up hill ect even bringing power on in 4th on the freeway can do it.

A fuel system that capable of holding solid fuel pressure & supply is one of the most important things our cars need, why else would a lot of tuners recommend a surge tank & pump upgrade... They don't want you coming back with a broken motor after they tune it.

If your on a tight budget and are relying on the stock system (pump) fit a fuel pressure gauge so you can at least see if there's low pressure and jump off the throttle.

I'm not saying this to sell a stack of surge tanks, it's fact and by now should be common knowledge, which for most guys on here it is.

[Headsex]

I mounted it in the same place as the PM and PW surge tanks

from under the car

No Offence BAturb, but your installation is exactly what makes me say professionals should do this.

You missed the most important thing about installing such a system, USE EFI CLAMPS, not hose clamps. in a few more K's you'll see exactly why hose clamps are not suitable!

Running around 300kw on the stock pump is fine, but it's also going to working close to its limits, most of the time you'll get away with it and not have any dramas.

Then there's other times when the tank might get a bit low, you push the car hard around a long sweeping corner, the pump struggles to pick up fuel for a second or two , fuel pressure goes down and fuel mixtures lean out for a few seconds... The motor most likely won't blow up right there and then, but have this happen a few more times and some of the damage is already done.

The same thing happens on hard launchs and under hard breaking, hard acceleration up hill ect even bringing power on in 4th on the freeway can do it.

A fuel system that capable of holding solid fuel pressure & supply is one of the most important things our cars need, why else would a lot of tuners recommend a surge tank & pump upgrade... They don't want you coming back with a broken motor after they tune it.

If your on a tight budget and are relying on the stock system (pump) fit a fuel pressure gauge so you can at least see if there's low pressure and jump off the throttle.

I'm not saying this to sell a stack of surge tanks, it's fact and by now should be common knowledge, which for most guys on here it is.

Mate you said alot of fluff and then advise to get a fuel pressure gauge? Are you serious?

1) when a drive is giving it WOT, they will be looking at the road, not the gauge

2) having a fuel gauge in the cabin is illegal

3) by the time you notice a drop in fuel presure its too late

4) depending on peoples boost curves, they will notice the fuel presure drop if their boost tapers off also.

A fuel pressure gauge, is NOT a solution even worth considering.

Quite Simply the problem is the pressure relief valve/spring in the standard fuel pump is too weak, and when the boost is increased it opens and runs lean.

The second problem is the fuel surge in sedans. The design of the fuel tank shape was done to get maximum capacity in a sedan, so it wraps under half the back seat and then up to the front side of the boot. the position of the fuel swirl pot obviously has to be in the lowest position in the tank, which is at the front of the tank.. Accelerate too quickly and it will move away from the pickup.

I've seen people attempt to fix this problem by drilling holes into the swirl pot to "aid" it filling up.. all it does it stop it filling to its full capacity.

Things like this should be left to the professionals who know what they are doing.

Suggestions to alternatives should also be left to professionals.

[RAP1D]

Ok here's some fluf...

You never seen an electronic fuel pressure gauge? Sensor stays in the engine bay...some even have an alarm you can set....

And since when do you have to sit on wot to max out a fuel system? Plenty if not most will do 15psi or more at half throttle... 1000nm at half throttle at 3500rpm will defiantly max a stock fuel system... I'd rather have a bit of warning than nothing at all.

I bet there's loads of guys that drive round like with the stereo up loud, windows up , no chance of hearing any ping.

Just trying to help people out, if I suggest something a bit out of the ordinary, like running a fuel pres gauge or using a wideband, doesn't mean everyone rush out and do it, it's just an option, may not be the norm of xr6t mods , but it's an option... But please don't read it as a solution, it's not, it's a warning, just like a boost gauge is.

[Headsex]

Yes, I have heard of electric fuel pressure gauges.. Usually the price of one of these is at least $150+, basically the cost of a walbro intank pump.

The limitation with the standard pump is boost related, and WOT from idle, boosting over 13psi will open the relief valve on the std fuel pump causing detonation. Usually when you half throttle and get 15psi, its a soft hit, so it wont totally open the relief valve, but by all means is not a way to judge if you need to replace your fuel pump.

Even though I'm a advocate of surge tanks, I would still go a intank walbro to replace the stock pump rather than spend money on a electronic fuel pressure gauge.

A fuel pressure gauge will give you no warning, by the time you see it, it was already running lean and causing damage. Your more likely to have your engine cough, hiccup(or worse) due to a lean condition before you even register anything on your fuel pressure gauge..

Where's your fuel pressure gauge mounted? in your direct front view periphery vision? or down by the center console like your AFR was mounted when I first saw your G6E?

You say you can have a warning setup? So, your Fuel pressure guage is beeping or flashing red the whole time unless your at WOT?

If you think about it, you have 4 bar base, less at idle, and over 5bar when boosting.. So to register any warning by the means of warning buzzer or flashing, you would need to set the threshold over 4.5bar at least, meaning 99% of your driving unless your on wot, the warning will be going off

I bet there's Plenty of guys that drive around that don't even know what PING is!

How does a guy with a standard actuator know when his surging looking at his fuel pressure gauge? He will likely have 16psi boost coming on, tailing off to 9psi up high rpm.. So whats he do when one second he sees 70odd psi, and then he looks at it again and see's 63odd psi?

If they were a N/A car with no turbo referenced fuel regulator, then that's the only time a fuel pressure gauge would show any important information what so ever.

Edited 13/02/12 11:38 PM by Headsex

[RAP1D]

Lol ok mate, Im just thinking out loud here... no need to analize it , or have a go.

But I still say a pres guage is worth having in the interest of being aware of whats going on... I'll dig up my video of the guage showing rail pressure falling during a 1/4mile run, from a set 45psi, upto 70psi on 25psi boost, falling down to 50odd at the end of the track, still at 25psi... its a shame I dint get the AFR reading next to it to see how lean it got. On Eflex too so fairly lucky there.

[dre]

For all the effort and cost it's just easier and cheaper to buy a surge tank. Requires no visual aid. No thinking.

It's a car. You should be able to just drive it and enjoy it. not have to look at every gauge constantly to decide how the motor is going to die.

[Headsex]

Exactly.. Focus your money to get something that covers a solution. which is exactly what a surge tank does.