Project Manual Typhoon 9 Sec

[SPIKO]

that a faarrkk load of boost lol, wat fuel?

C16 is good enough for that level even more I'd say. The current race tune was achieved with a 10psi wastegate spring, so the cycle was almost at maximum with 29 tappering of to 27psi, that is why it didn't hold 29, 16psi spring will be in the car shortly!

[d rangd]

hey man are you going aftermarket ecu? if so what are you using? im getting an autronic wired in so nothing bad happens at higher boost, apparently standard are sketchy after 28psi...

[SPIKO]

Hey Buddy,

No need for aftermarket CPU, if your tuner know's what he is doing he will stop or the engine will let go before the CPU becomes an issue!!!

[Headsex]

Technically the factory MAP sensor will only read approx 25psi (its a 2.5 bar sensor).

Any more boost than approx 25psi the PCM will be unable to calculate the extra air going into the engine.

Its unable to calculate the correct load, and as a effect, timing will be pegged, and fueling will also be pegged.

Any increase in air flow above this will not increase the amount of fuel required.

Its not about "if your tuner knows what his doing" to fix the issue. Cos tuning around this is easy, but crude.

Fueling can be fooled by simply adjusting the high slope injector value, or you can go in and alter the speed density tables to command more fuel or even simply yet, alter the base fuel table at WOT position.

So it can be done. But its crude as I said. But as the boost level isnt that far above the cliped map sensor, it will do.

But, What if you were to run like 35 to 40psi.. like many of the big power cars do then the *engineeringly correct* way of doing this would be to change the map sensor(s) to a 3.5 or 4bar.

Changing to a 3.5 or 4bar MAP sensor is Physically easy.. However, NONE of the tuning packages have the required values shown to do so. Your left with a rather crude way of reshaping the speed density tables to make it work.

danny.

[SPIKO]

Danny,

I am not sure that what you are saying is exactly how it goes, running an autronic/Motec etc. has it's advantage's and it's dissadvantage's, I am not going to state how we overcome the problem you are suggesting but we obviously do if we are running these engines at 33psi till date, we will soon be going to 35-36 with mine and no aftermarket CPU, the question that was asked of me is what I was running? So I answered accordingly, if I have oftended anyone I apologise this was not intended I just stated that my tuner(s) did not require an upgrade in CPU to achieve this ressult!

Regards

Spiro

Edited 30/11/09 01:30 AM by Buf-Phoon
quote removed

[Headsex]

Danny,

I am not sure that what you are saying is exactly how it goes, running an autronic/Motec etc. has it's advantage's and it's dissadvantage's, I am not going to state how we overcome the problem you are suggesting but we obviously do if we are running these engines at 33psi till date, we will soon be going to 35-36 with mine and no aftermarket CPU, the question that was asked of me is what I was running? So I answered accordingly, if I have oftended anyone I apologise this was not intended I just stated that my tuner(s) did not require an upgrade in CPU to achieve this ressult!

Regards

Spiro

Spiro, You didn't offend me..

My post attempted to answer the guys question. Basically answering YES, the standard PCM does go "SKETCHY" over 25 odd psi of boost.

But you can tune it so its not a problem. But its crude.

When I mean by crude is that your tuner will be adjusting the ~25psi load point for Timing AND fuel, regardless of how much boost you running over 25psi, ie, 30psi, 35psi, 40psi.. The PCM cannot tell the difference between ANY of those boost levels. In doing that, ~25psi will be rich, and starts coming good towards the desired boost level it was tuned at.

But at the end of the day. The difference between the boost raising from 10psi to 38psi under WOT conditions, your not going to notice the rich fuel mixture as it comes up, around and passes ~25psi as it will be a split second change.

Ideally this much boost is best setup with a 3.5bar or 4bar map sensor.. bringing other problems as I mentioned previously.

Me personally. I would never put a aftermarket PCM on these cars. And its credit to people like Spiro and his tuner who battle on with such extreme setups keeping the factory management in place.

danny.

[SPIKO]

Danny,

You are a Gentleman, I can see your point of view!

Regards

Spiro

Edited 30/11/09 03:12 AM by Buf-Phoon
quote removed

[d rangd]

I have asked my tuner to tune the car with the standard ecu, then wire in the autronic and tune with that, but only at 21psi as that's all I want at the moment. if he does or not is another question, but id like to see it..I only have a ba ecu, and they are even worse than the bf onwards ecu...plus im convinved it will help me reach my goal on the strip with the 2 step rev limiter etc. very keen to see what your car makes with 35psi! has it even been done yet?

[SPIKO]

As far as I know, no one has pushed that kind of boost before, I am not doing this because I require the power to run 10's, 29psi is more than enough for that. I am doing it because it has not been done

[qik1]

more so to the point why the f not if ya can. Good luck mate