Time To Refine

[Daniel]

Sorry, I do disagree, but only partly.

I also use FG's and other manufactured vehicles and (obviously) own a BF F6, but as you mentioned the FG, I will stay on topic and explain I find it (the FG range) to be the very same as the BF with these small inane things this thread seems to be focused on. Many other aspects have improved greatly over the Fg range and the only thing I have noted that would apply here is slightly less NVH from the FRONT END of the car.

I am in no way saying that nothing has improved from BF to FG ( I don't want to start a war on this again lol) as they certainly have, even with materials in some places inside the car.

When it comes to fitting, I still see the very same issues, time will tell when these cars get some kms on them and they get used in day to day use - do a search even right now and there is many FG owners who have issues with dashboards and seats, back end noise etc... It is all a little too familiar to us, isn't it? Sadly.

I hope that makes sense.

[Erko]

great thread and definately a worthwhile project. I'll be following

[seduced]

Fantastic response Daniel! That information is gold to me. I'm honestly glad someone else has this OCD-ish obsession with finding rattles and improving the overall feel and quality of the car. Im currently planning and researching the best methods to achieve what I want, from the simple console lid felt (which I've already done the exact same fix!) to the overall tyre noise fix. Obviously I want to do this as cheap as possible, I will include all of this information as well.

I've already identified several key areas of noise amplification. I will do dB test prior to any work to show real benefits. This will be in a controlled enviroment. I.e Several different road surfaces, different speeds, specific angles of meter, correct tyre pressures. All tests wil be repeated on the same stretch of road at the same speeds and fully documented with costs vs results. This is the real deal. This process will benefit other owners hugely.

I hope to make this interactive. That meaning I want to share theories, material suggestions, costs, suppliers, specific known problem areas (eg the dash creak....which I of course endure aswell...). Ths wont be a quick process, obviously it will take considerable time, money and effort which I of course don't have like all of us, but the sooner the better!!!

I want to start with a problem list. Daniel has already provided a huge amount of points already. I will sart with these, but if anyone has anything to add at any point, feel free.

As daniel has already pointed out, the trade-off of all this work will be MUCH improved audio response, that alone is worth it. The goal is to have an interior fit and driving refinement equal to the level the drivetrain already provides. I believe its the only thing missing on these cars!

Thanks for the positive response!

[aiboart]

Here are some suggestions,

Tighten up all chassis and driveline bolts. If you can't do this yourself, pay the dealer to do it for you. This is not expensive, but the results are brilliant in respect to eliminating NMH. Do it and do it regularly. It is a lot easier to prevent NVH in the first instance with this simple and yet typically overlooked maintenance item than trying to block NVH from entering the cabin with remedial engineering. In addition to starkly and significantly improving NVH tightening up the chassis and driveline will improve control fidelity and decrease latency.

If you don't have decent Ford floor mats, get some.

Buy only ultra high performance tyres which are known to have good NVH characteristics.

Get some high quality monotubes shocks. These have a phenomal effect on all aspects of NVH. At low speed they do not whoosh and rattle at all. Their action is oily smooth due to the high quality construction. At speed the digressive tune cuts in to allow relatively high rates wheel compliance, which significantly reduces wheel impact (NVH) and body responses (VH); wheel compliance dramatically adds to mechanical grip on rough surfaces.

Ford make a heavy fitted rubber tub-like mat that fits into the boot of the BA/BF. It is meant to provide a form of easily removed and easily cleaned water proof protection for the boot, however, the nature of the material and its fit act to block and absorb noise emminating from under the boot floor.

Ford also make a spongy rubber flap that is desiged to flip over the loading lip. When retracted this sits in an ideal position to absorb NVH from the underfloor area in the boot.

Get a factory BA/BF boot lid liner. Again a factory fit item that acts to dampen noise in the boot.

Check to see that the rubber plugs in the bottom of your spare wheel are present. (there are supposed to be two, my car only had one).

If using the Aux imput, upgrade to the Ford pre amp version rather than the straight cable. Even better, consider the new ASL noise suppressed preamped version (ASL is the Ford Factory apppointed ICC repairer).

Regards,

aa

[seduced]

Certainly a step in the right direction aiboart. Tightening of bolts will be part of the process, with shock replacement being one of the last things at this stage. I want to see what benefits can be made without replacing parts. Great ideas with the boot liner etc, I will be checking that one out with dB results, however I will probably go down the dynamat extreme path for most body deadening. One other thing I want to look at is reducing driveline NVH from entering the cabin form,. This includes tailshaft vibration under torque, gearbox vibrations at lower revs etc. I want to look at methods of improving mounting points at each of these locations. Also, the filling of chassis blocks with deadener to dampen NVH. BMW and the like use similar methods, someone else here has mentioned this before in the diff bush topic I believe.

Don't get me wrong. These cars deal resonably well with NVH already, for most owners, they may never hear or feel any problems. I'm just overly picky, and to be honest, if something can be improved than I don;t see a reason why I shouldn't give it a go. Better NVH does not have negative trade-offs unless you are a purist who wants to feel every inch of metal to become "one" with the car....

Problem Areas:

Dash - requires disassemble and anti-rattle measures installed

doors - removal of skin, deadening and tightening installed.

various internal fixtures - eg rear view mirror, deadening and tightening.

rear deck - deadening.

a-b-c pillars - full deadening and install of sound absorbing material over full length of pillar - also deadening of foundation point to chassis (this is a key area to reduce noise being amplified across the roof panel)

boot - deaden.

floor - deaden.

floor tunnel around gearbox through to diff - significant deadening.

underbody - tighten all bolts, improve mounting points.

wheel arches - significant amount of deadening where possible.

review after all completed.

Any further ideas?

[Harry]

I have found a rattle to add to the list; I had a buzzy sound around what I thought was the central dash. It disappeared when I put my hand on the handbrake. Turns out to be the silver push button in the end of the handbrake handle vibrating on coarse chip roads.On FG models

Harry

[ronburgundy]

OCD or not, isn't it a little silly to compare a 2006 Ford taxi to a Lexus in terms of NVH and refinement in general?

Talk about chalk and cheese! I guess one needs to have a benchmark and I guess in that regard the 430 is a pretty good choice from what I've read/heard.

Will indeed be very interested to hear about the dB readings however.

Not that I'm particularly knowledgeable of these things but surely if you go far enough you could get rid of a great deal of the noise, but at a cost of dollars and also adding weight?

Edited 13/10/09 09:11 PM by ronburgundy

[Erko]

im going to check out the boot tub liner and the protective flap in the boot

I have 2 different noises coming from the dash that I will try to isolate when I get a chance.

[seduced]

I understand your point. This is not an attempt to reach the refinement levels of an ls430. That would be close to impossible without redesigning almost every aspect of the car. This is merely an attempt to improve the NVH levels to something of a higher standard over stock. These are cheap cars, and typically NVH is given a lower priority to power/handling in a sports orientated car. I can't speak for everyone, but 80% of the time, I'm driving fairly sedately down the road where 245kw and handling poise means bugger all. The car is brilliant at the sports side of things, now I want to make it brilliant at the cruising side of things.

Weight is not an issue. A few extra kilos of deadening will not make a noticable difference in a car that already weighs 1.7 ton. The cost should come in less than $1000 as well. Which to be honest isn't all that much when people spend that on wheels/tyres/stereos/coolers to improve the car. This is just another area of improvement, not for better performance, but for better day-to-day driving. It makes sense to me.

Now - Yesterday I purchased door gap foam sealer from bunnings. It was placed inside the glovebox lid on each side where the lid closes on the dash. That has fixed that rattle over harsh bumps. Lid now closes with a damped thud, nice and tight and feels solid rather than cheap and tacky. One down - many to go....

Also, I installed medium density foam blocks up inside the dash of both driver and passenger a-pillar locations. Also, some black foam was placed between the windscreen and the dash out-of-view. This has fixed dash creaks going around corners and over bumps. Nice and quiet!!! I'll grab some photos soon.

Next stage: Fix the damn buzzing rear-view mirror... Anyone know how to get these off the windscreen mount?

Lastly, I found a fantastic windy, scenic, empty stretch of road just near where I live that is great fun but not the best surface. Mid corner bumps and some coarse chip showed up the trouble spots in the car. The rear-view mirror, rear parcel shelf, noise from the boot, inside the door rattles, and stacks of tyre roar. On a normal peice of road these things never show up. One thing though - these cars are brilliant fun when pushed through corners...something a Lexus LS430 will never achieve...

[Erko]

as I got all excited and have a big drive tomorrow (Sydney to Bright VIC) I ordered both the rubber boot liner and tailgate protector from Ford. I'll pick them up this afternoon and confirm their noise suspression effects next week.