Time To Refine

[seduced]

After driving 200km on fairly rough crap road on 19s, I am tired of the interior creaking, rattling, buzzing and tyre noise ruining my driving experience. I love my car, on smooth roads it is perfect, but find some rutted coarse chip bitumen and it becomes annoying, like that friend that turns up for no reason and talks endless crap while your trying to watch top gear. That sort of thing. I am just trying to relax driving back home, yet I am constantly interupted by a buzz, rattle, creak that just has to be found and silenced.

I know most cars in this price range will rattle, buzz, creak on rough crap roads but I believe they can be fixed so they become refined cruisers no matter what surface they drive on. For example, I almost purchased a Lexus LS430 before I decided on the xr6t. But I didn't. Why? The lexus was just too boring dynamically. Yet the refinement was astounding. While having power and handling poise is wonderful, its little use on 200kms of crap road. Hence my desire to improve it.

I intend on researching methods, materials, attention to detail, problem areas. I intend to pull apart most of the dash and reassemble with dampening materials, tightening, padding and securing any part that dares rattle when under vibration or stress. Hopefully the interior will be absolutely noise free once completed. It can be done.

Also, I hope to reduce intrusive exterior noise to a minimum by sound proofing floors, doors, firewall, boot space, wheel arches, external panels. Researching ways to reduce noise in chassis mounting points etc. I have a Decibel meter and will test the results as I go along. I will also document and photograph the whole process for any one else here who may be interested. Is anyone interested? I dont want to waste time putting this together for no-one.

So where do I start. Has anyone done this before? Any suggestions on materials used? Any problem areas that you know noise easily enteres the cabin? Any dash issues you know cause noise?

[ravenhard]

Im sure alot of people would be interested in your progress. The simple matter of taking apart any interior piece with photos and instructions would be a great help for people on here.

I persoanlly dont get or notice any continous or constant rattles from the interior just the standard bumps and rattles from the driveline.

Just curious but how many k's has your car done?

[XtRmn8]

I am doing a similar thing with my ute but not going to the extent that seduced is looking at. The utes (BA anyway) have very little insulation behind the seats and in the cabin rear quoter panels and can be a bit noisy. I am hoping to cut down some general road noise and also stop panel resonation to help with new stereo bits going in.

Look at Knox carpets for good sound proofing material to go under carpets etc. Dynamat for doors and other panels etc.

[seduced]

The rattles aren't continuous, or loud. They will just sometimes ensure you of their presence every so often on rubbish surfaces. Or in the case on the weekend, the sun visor clip buzzed like mad until I unclipped it. I clipped it back in straight away and it continued to buzz. I unclipped it for an hour, then put it back in and it was fine. Most people will never even notice these rattles. I hear things others cannot. Its something I inherited from my father.... we used to spend hours finding obscure quiet rattles in the family car just so he could drive in peace.

The car has only 48,000kms and has no more rattles than any other Falcon I have driven. It has FAR less then the VE Calais I drove all last week... I said to the owner of the Calias "how can you stand all those little squeeks and rattles??..." he look at me confused and had no idea what I was talking about. I just notice anything. Trust me, they could be very quiet and obscure, but I'll hear it and it will drive me mad until I fix it. Im annoyingly picky.

[Dillz]

Don't forget they are built in Australia, not Europe or Japan.

It's just one of those things, I doubt theres much you can do about it but hats off for having a crack.

[seduced]

I understand what you are saying. However, if you look at the differences between a euro jap and aussie car, some practices can easily be adapted.

Euros and japs are not exempt. I've been in plenty BMWs/Mercs that suffer the same. A fmaily member has a nice 330i, paid a premium for it, and the interior is not all that different.

I will pinpoint the areas in which road noise enters the cabin and look at ways to improve them. Cars share the same basic constuct no matter where they are made. Some companies invest into reducing NVH while others dont for financial reasons. The same basic principles apply across the board when it comes to acoustics.

[Dagabond]

Have you thought of investing in some of these....may save a lot of time and effort....

:banghead:

[Dagabond]

...and NO they go in your ears... :banghead:

[Daniel]

I think this topic could be the most interesting topic on this forum for me personally as I work in the audio/research industry and have very sensitive hearing, picking up ALL the things others also just go 'meh' over!

Funny enough, this should be a very interesting topic for anyone who likes good sound in their cars or has invested in anything other than the Ford/FPV Premium Sound as the more background noise you block or cancel out along with pesky rattles and buzzing, the better everything else will sound. It will be a noticeable difference on good gear, I have already noted improvements on my F6 and I haven't changed anything from stock with the stereo system, yet.

I have (possibly crazy... haha) dreams to make my car silent as can be also, but honestly I don't have enough time to really get well into pulling the car to bits as I need it all together for work and doing this can take time, money and effort that your wouldn't expect. What I have done is played around with a few problem areas I have come across while living with/modifying my car and noted some interesting results I will try and explain to the best of my ability.

Problem areas I have noted (some were on my car) other than general road noise or "one off" issues people may have from broken parts:

- Wind noise around mirrors.

- Wind noise around A pillars.

- Creaks in the dash (it is a lucky dip with Ford/FPV as to how many and how often this happens).

- Vibrating door lock on drivers door when in the 'up' position on rough roads.

- Wind noise around the B pillars.

- General road noise from under the car.

- Rattles around B pillars.

- Rattles around C pillars.

- Wind noise around C pillars.

- Excessive fuel pump whine (modified only in most cases) from under rear seat.

- Rattles around parcel shelf.

- Rear center seat belt rattle with heavy bass.

- Squeaks from the center console when opening/closing or people lean on it.

- Squeaks from front seats.

- Leather trim on front seats rubbing on plastic side of seat when 'not so small' people are in them.

- Rattles or squeaks on bumps with the BF silver door insert spears, also when grabbed/doors close.

- Rattles in or around the rear brake light on the parcel shelf.

- Rattles in boot lid with lots of bass.

- Buzzing rear view mirror.

- Excessive road noise from boot floor/sides.

- Excessive road noise with bad tyres or big rims from around wheel arches.

- Excessive road noise from around door trims.

- Rattles in sunroof.

- Buzzing electric window switches on drivers door.

- Clunks or thuds from spare wheel and/or jack moving around with larger bumps.

- Excessive transmission noise around the center console and transmission tunnel.

- Excessive differential noise from around the rear seat and spare wheel well.

- Drone at the back of the car coming from around the wheel well and boot walls.

- Rattle from rear overhead map lights.

- Excessive engine/wind/road noise from around the firewall and front footwells.

- Rattle on dash where passenger side airbag is mounted.

Now that is some off the top of my head I have come across in my own car, work cars, friends cars and other forum members cars.

Below is some small things I have tried to help each of them so far and what the result was: (Note: I don't have all of these and haven't even stared on others)

- Wind noise around mirrors.

I removed and refitted my mirrors tighter and more carefully only as I noted it was also vibrating, this stopped the vibration and some wind noise but I have now noticed that the exact angle of the mirror sail where it screws onto the car is very important to stop the most wind noise. I have no clue how else you could improve this beyond what I have tried, I fear you cannot.

- Wind noise around A pillars.

I have removed the A pillar covers and applied a small amount of metal/tar sound deadener (not to deaden, but to block noise) and then applied some dense/absorbent material to the back of the A pillar covers. This has made a small, but noticeable difference, you could get better result by putting even more in there I am sure, but the "cost vs result" would mean you would spend a lot of money for little benefit.

- Creaks in the dash (it is a lucky dip with Ford/FPV as to how many and how often this happens).

I had one creak and I have had it since new near the passenger side A pillar/dash/windscreen area and it has been back to Ford from day 1 to fix it ~8 times with no result. They tried all sorts including swapping airbags, A pillar covers, dash side covers, glove box and lubricating things to silly degrees. I have taken a (15cm x 5cm) piece of suede like material, rolled it up and pushed it behind the dash board hard up against the windscreen right near the A pillar/air vent. This has stopped my creaking AMAZINGLY! I have pulled the whole thing apart nearly trying to find this, found that a common creak in most BA/BF range is where the metal of the car meets the dash pad; this moves and creaks badly in some cars.

- Vibrating door lock on drivers door when in the 'up' position on rough roads.

I have put a small ring of adhesive felt around the bottom of the lock where it cannot be seen, this hold it tight but not too tight, it also operates smoothly and before I did this I was always OCD about locking the doors when I got in to stop it from vibrating lol, now I do it only for safety! Worked perfectly.

- Wind noise around the B pillars.

I removed the belt adjuster trim and then the long black trim that covers the belt and B pillar from the waist down to the floor. I then applied the same material I did behind the A pillars on the back of this black trim and also blocked up a big hole/cavity behind the belt which seems to be large/hollow and could allow a bit of wind noise or resonance within the immediate space. This is very very small, but possible and once you start looking for culprits, you want to eliminate ALL little possibilities. Not too sure how affective this was as the day after I tried it I got the flu and couldn't hear properly anyway.. I feel it has made a small difference which is helping have an accumulative affect.

- General road noise from under the car.

I have not really tackled this, I have just put new tyres on my car (nice quiet/soft yokohama advans sport v103s) nd that has helped a fair bit, I suspect to really fix this you would need to pull the carpet out of the car and apply sound deadening and/or absorbing material to the underside of the carper or floor pan. Maybe even try brush/spray on sound deadener on the bottom of the car, this would be a big effort however as you would need to remove many components and apply it liberally yet evenly or it could be a waste of time.

- Rattles around B pillars.

When I took the belt adjusters to stop wind noise from behind/below, I also fitted lots of adhesive felt on the back where all the plastics touch each other and I'd say this was a perfect fix.

- Rattles around C pillars.

ame as A pillars with material and application, but also made sure all cables, drainage pipes (from sunroof I suspect) and the FM receiver for the rear window mounted antenna was secured strongly with tape and some metal/tar sound deadening material again. Has worked 100% also

- Wind noise around C pillars.

Same as rattles around C pillars above. Wind noise is reduced, but not all together gone.

- Excessive fuel pump whine (modified only in most cases) from under rear seat.

I have lifted the rear seat pad and installed metal/tar sound deadener over everything I could reach/see/find, then got some Dyna-Pad (good but very expensive) and put a small sheet of that over the fuel pump cover with a small amount of adhesive to hold it over the pump. In the even I need access to the pump, it can be removed with a little bit of effort and depending on who removes it and how carefully they do so, it could be reapplied once finished. Over the top of all this I have a sheet of strong (almost like vinyl) plastic material cut to fit right under the seat to hold everything in and hopefully hold in some sound that has come through some of the small holes you cannot cover with sound deadener/blocking material. This has worked very well, however I feel if I had used more Dyna-Pad and not a small (roughly 40cm x 40cm) square over the pump it could have blocked out much more. Due to the lack of spare space under the seat and the thickness of the pad (plus the floor is not flat, its a pain in the arse to work on) it just didn't seem like an easy product to apply in this area.

- Rattles around parcel shelf.

I have applied metal/tar sound deadener to the bottom of the parcel shelf under the carpet cover, covering all the holes and pretty much everything in sigh other than the speakers, obviously. This has blocked some of the road noise you could hear from the back and a nice little side affect is that the bass response and sound from the rear speakers has improved remarkably. I have not applied anything to the top of my shelf as I started with the bottom and was very happy with the result; if you wanted the absolute ultimate in bass response from a parcel mounted subwoofer (stock or not) or sound blocking, then apply the same material to the top for sure.

- Rear center seat belt rattle with heavy bass.

I don't have this issue, maybe apply sound deadening to the bottom of the parcel shelf below where it sits, by adding mass you often remove small things like this. Sorry I cannot be too much help there.

- Squeaks from the center console when opening/closing or people lean on it.

I have applied some black adhesive felt around the two small pegs that stick out of the console lid where it meets the plastics of the console. This has worked very well for me, I'd say this style of approach should fix the issue 100%.

- Squeaks from front seats.

I had 2 squeaks in my drivers seat, one was fixed by tightening the 4 main bolts that hold the frame to the base of the seat. The other I fixed by cleaning and lubricating the wires underneath. This has worked 100% for me.

- Leather trim on front seats rubbing on plastic side of seat when 'not so small' people are in them.

I have removed the plastic covers from the front seats, worked out what ares on top are the areas being touched by the leather when getting in and out or turning/sitting. Then got some higher quality black 'suede' felt (adhesive again) and carefully cut it to match the contours of the top of the plastic as not to look 'tacky' or non standard. This looks stock (IF you even see it) and has stopped all the noises made from leather on plastics which drove me insane for 2 years!

- Rattles or squeaks on bumps with the BF silver door insert spears, also when grabbed/doors close.

I have removed all the inserts, applied small strips of thin adhesive felt along the insides of the handles and some parts of the outsides on the spears themselves, I am astounded that this issues exists and that Ford claim it is "normal" ... pathetic! This fixed mine 100%, they are now solid in your hand and silent to the ear.

- Rattles in or around the rear brake light on the parcel shelf.

I have not had this issue.

- Rattles in boot lid with lots of bass.

I have not had this issue. However in my efforts to stop just that little bit extra road noise and exhaust noise without going over the top in costs, I applied some adhesive semi closed or mixed cell dense foam. This has helped for what I was trying to achieve and I'd suggest doing the same with some metal/tar sound deadener underneath to bring in some mass to stop rattles if you have this issue.

- Buzzing rear view mirror.

I have not had this issue.

- Excessive road noise from boot floor/sides.

I have applied metal/tar sound deadener sheeting over the entire of the boots insides, in some areas more than 1 layer. This helps significantly with road noise but I feel that when I added the adhesive semi closed or mixed cell dense foam over the top of the first layers, it helped considerably also. I also put in some Dyna-Pad to help with drone or road noise, this helps slightly but is very hard to install as mentioned previously!

- Excessive road noise with bad tyres or big rims from around wheel arches.

I took my wheels off and applied some liquid sound deadening tar to my rear wheel arches and the cabin side of the front arches, this helped a lot in my opinion, but it VERY messy and a royal pain in the arse trying to do it on an every day car whereas if it were on a project car I would imagine it would be much easier and you could really get into it.

- Excessive road noise from around door trims.

While all cars have this issue, I have not tackled it yet; I feel the best way would be with sound deadening sheets again and maybe some rubber/foam backing to the door trims.

- Rattles in sunroof.

I have not had this issue.

- Buzzing electric window switches on drivers door.

I have not had this issue.

- Clunks or thuds from spare wheel and/or jack moving around with larger bumps.

I have not had this issue; I keep my wheel strapped in tightly and now with all the stuff I have added to my boot to stop noise, the wheel only just fits back in the wheel well anyway, same with the jack.

- Excessive transmission noise around the center console and transmission tunnel.

I don't believe I have this issue, however I noted there is a bit of space around/under the center console you could put some foam or deadening materials also.

- Excessive differential noise from around the rear seat and spare wheel well.

I didn't believe I had this issue, however when I did all the work under the rear seat and the boot floor, I noted it was a good way to stop noise from that area. The only way I could see a noticeable difference other than what I have mentioned would be to apply lots of the liquid tar sound deadening around the immediate area under the car.

- Drone at the back of the car coming from around the wheel well and boot walls.

Read as per boot noise, I have also put a small amount of liquid tar around near where the mufflers sit and around/on the spare wheel well; has worked very well, but again it was damn messy and the effort put in was notably high with no easy access under the car.

- Rattle from rear overhead map lights.

I have put some dense/absorbent material (roughly 30cm x 20cm 2 layers thick) around the head space and behind the map lights inside on top of the roof lining while I was tackling the C pillars. This stopped the rattles 100% and couldn't hurt anything else.

- Excessive engine/wind/road noise from around the firewall and front footwells.

I don't want to think about this, it will be a huge job with my skills/time/funds! My initial thoughts are to start around the footwells from inside then up behind the dash as far as I can get to. Then up behind the windscreen wiper grates on the outside maybe and see if they are the main culprits; if not I will probably not bother as to get in any further would require a lot of disassembly & reassembly which I don't have time for.

- Rattle on dash where passenger side airbag is mounted.

I have not had this issue.

OK, now I must say that while this may help a few people, I can't wait to see what the OP finds and comes back to us with (sound levels, REAL proof!)

Cheers - Daniel

[bunna]

Old cars, old design. This is far more obvious now with the comparison between the orion and the territory - the massive improvement in the newer design is obvious. Unfortunately, the B series harks back quite a few years - from a time before ford started really getting this stuff in check. Also, the philosophy in manufacturing has changed - far more attention is now paid to these areas, and the change in customer feedback speaks for itself.