Surge Tank & 044 - Tune Needed?

[RAP1D]

To answer the question, are you just adding these to the car with the mods in your sig? Or has it been tuned since then?

What happens is the fuel reg' controls (regulates) the pressure in the fuel rail, to keep it at a constant level set by ford, allowing the injectors to work with the same fuel pressure. Once the injectors max out (reach maximum duty cycle) they will not flow anymore fuel, which is why we all change them for bigger rated injectors.

Once you do that, the motor gets more fuel above where the original ones ran short, and we get more power, happy days.

But, if the car is tuned with the bigger injectors, but still on the standard fuel pump, there can be a point where the stock pump cannot push enough fuel upto the fuel reg, there for the fuels pressure starts reducing, but we have very large injectors, so they can be "told" to more fuel faster to compensate for the falling fuel pressure from the stock pump... the fuel regulator can only keep a constant presure IF it has enough fuel supply feeding it.

Now, fit a well designed tank and 044 pump system and all of a sudden we have the correct fuel pressure in the rail, but where the injectors have been forcing more fuel in to over come the falling fuel pressure, the injectors will now flow a higher volume and there for the motor will run rich. And if the tune was running leanish befor, its now going to run richer, so the motor may make more power straight away from the extra fuel.

So it really depends on the state of the motors fuel supply as to wether it will need a change in the tune, or be ok as is...

Its always best to get the car onto a dyno to read AFR's when altering the fuel system.

Hope that helps.

Edited 03/10/09 09:02 AM by RAP1D

[SAPNEN]

Thanks for clearing that up mate

Yes all mods on signature, still running the same tune. Originally I had plans of doing mods to my car sooner so opted for 60Ib injectors.

So what your saying is that more than likely the motor will run rich after this install?

I might put it off for now then, I want to get a custom tune done after I fit a custom exaust - for which I don't want to do until I have the fuel system sorted. not much point doing fuel - tune ...then exaust - tune ...then cooler - tune etc.

I'd rather do a few things then get a tune. Tuneing can be expensive.

ANY WHO, I really need to know about these fuel lines and the best way to hook into them without removing my tub linner and drilling out spot welds...! Can I get clamp-on style fittings etc. What size are the fuel lines..?

[IH8TOADS]

I fiited a PW anti-surge/044 set-up on the weekend and logged the effect on closed loop fuelling. Like the guys have said above the 044 does richen it up a fair bit over just running a walbro. So re-scaling the injectors and base fuel table is definately required after a 044 fitment.

The first graph shows some 'closish' scalars I loaded in with the walbro. Second graph shows the LTFT dropped after fitting the 044 meaning that it's now running richer at idle and the PCM is pulling fuel out to compensate. Third graph is re-scaled injectors for the 044.

edit: spelling!

Edited 12/10/09 12:42 AM by IH8TOADS

[Under-Pants]

I like the cool priming noise the 044 makes before start-up

[CHLAXN]

I fiited a PW anti-surge/044 set-up on the weekend and logged the effect on closed loop fuelling. Like the guys have said above the 044 does richen it up a fair bit over just running a walbro. So re-scaling the injectors and base fuel table is definately required after a 044 fitment.

The first graph shows some 'closish' scalars I loaded in with the walbro. Second graph shows the LTFT dropped after fitting the 044 meaning that it's now running richer at idle and the PCM is pulling fuel out to compensate. Third graph is re-scaled injectors for the 044.

edit: spelling!

hope its all working fine for ya mate its a good bit of gear

[BFHOON]

Interesting...

This is why I put the post up, to find out what other people have done and their experiences.

I also thought that the regulator would keep the fuel pressure the same...

BFHOON - was your car standard before installing a fuel sys + tune and gaining 50kW? Because I was told (by my tuner) that the standard injectors in the BF's are running 80% cycle standard. ---------And it is possible to gain 50kW with ONLY a custom tune from standard.

Xrfrango - YES E-BAY I have bought alot of stuff from ebay all at good prices and all top quality, hoping this tank is also good (the welds look ok) just have to wait and see.

no mate my car had deka 60lb injectors fitted at 3000km, was runnung at 280rwkw ended up at 330.

[SAPNEN]

Awesome! I was hoping to make a gain from this (in the short term - you know what I mean... before I get the exaust etc --> the whole reason for the need for more fuel ---> future upgrades and sh*t !

Just means I'll have to fork out for a tune straight after I put the system in.

Anyone know about the fuel lines???????

[BFHOON]

the main reason for the gain is that my tuner would not give me more power with the stock pump for obvious reasons, it made more than 280 on the stock pump but for safety reasons power was capped at 280, with a surge tank and 044 he was able to lean on it a bit harder until my turbo let me down, after adding a wastegate and actuator mod it went up to 350 where my butchered modded stock system started holding me back.

im going top get a filly sick zorst system fitted soon(from carline at engadine) and add my second fuel pump, twin 044`s on the bottom of the 3.2 litre surge tank and give con a nother go at tuning her up and see what I get.

Edited 15/10/09 01:10 PM by BFHOON

[SAPNEN]

Cool man!

Yeah I thought the stock exaust would hold it back a bit... butchered how? lol (I have removed center muffler)

Is there really any need for 2 x 044's???

[BFHOON]

I agree 2 isnt really needed but its going to be a fail safe, if one stops the other one will be wired to a different circut,

butchered is a 5 inch cat no centre muffler and twin 3 inch hotdogs at the rear. I made a mistake on my last post it was carline mortdale who make custom systems for our cars. iv seen the jobs they have done and its good work they do there.