Is It Really Ford Performance ?

[Chich]

:icon8: I have to say, I totally agree with ya there.... they have taken away the real Expensive Daewoo vs ford competition, and turned into team vs team, its rubbish.... bring back the stock car vs stock car, and we'll see some real racing.

[Guest]

  senna_T said:

Prodrive help develop the vehicles from an engineering role, however the V8 motor that FPV run now is a bit of a parts bin special - a windsor block from canada, Mustang Cobra R heads from the states and rods, pistons and crank made here - and its all thrown together here in Melbourne.

Heads are actually generic 03/04 castings not the newer design, there are quite a few differences between them which make the R/GT/GT500 head so much better. Why FPV say what they do has me stumped as it's a basic 03/04 casting with zero differences.

[Venom XR6]

  HI PSI said:

Bring back the Bathurst of old...

Remember the days when manufacturers needed to product 500 cars of that particular model to qualify. When drivers such as Brock sometimes sourced spare parts from the parking lot. These were the days that everyday people has real bragging rights about the cars that they drove.... It is this reason that the very cars are held in such high esteem, let alone value.

The Australian touring cars of today, while exciting. Has lost its way. The heavily modified and engineered cars that run around the track today can hardly be called a Expensive Daewoo or a Ford. The only thing original is the outer shape and this is the real reason for the loss of the Aussie muscle car.

Iam not saying that we scrap the touring cars. Maybe we should have a second Bathurst????? The real Bathurst... And just maybe it would stimuate cars sales and produce much needed job in engineering and automoblie production.

Maybe then we could get some real performance cars... There is nothing like competition to bring out the best in companies....

Just a thought....

Both companies have no money to do it, Expensive Daewoo especially, because they are in massive trouble. The reason they didn't offer all those workers redundancy payouts is because they asked GM for money to do it and they got knocked back, because the only money GM has is the bailout money the US Government gave to them, which cannot be used on anything outside the US as one of the conditions of the loan. They had to keep all the workers on on a week on week off basis because of that. They tried to BS everyone by saying they were trying to save jobs, but the reality is they now how to continue paying hundreds of workers they shouldn't have to, and don't want to. They are hoping that a lot of them leave on their own accord so they don't have to pay. A lot probably will as some have had their pay cut by up to 40%.

Ford don't have much in the way of spending money to develop race cars either. They wouldn't want to anyway, back in the 60's and 70's Ford actually lost money on the GTHO's because of the high cost of R&D and the fact they had to keep the sale price down to fit within a certain price category to race them. But they considered it a worthwhile loss and it helped promote their product and sales through the win on sunday sell on monday theory.

Then you also need to consider the political ramifications. Once the media got hold of Ford and Expensive Daewoo building race cars for the road it would be a supercar scare all over again just like it was in 72.

I can't see Ford wanting to move from the current formula either at the moment as they are whipping Holdens arse.

[Kimberley Scott]

  Venom XR6 said:

Both companies have no money to do it, Expensive Daewoo especially, because they are in massive trouble. The reason they didn't offer all those workers redundancy payouts is because they asked GM for money to do it and they got knocked back, because the only money GM has is the bailout money the US Government gave to them, which cannot be used on anything outside the US as one of the conditions of the loan. They had to keep all the workers on on a week on week off basis because of that. They tried to BS everyone by saying they were trying to save jobs, but the reality is they now how to continue paying hundreds of workers they shouldn't have to, and don't want to. They are hoping that a lot of them leave on their own accord so they don't have to pay. A lot probably will as some have had their pay cut by up to 40%.

Ford don't have much in the way of spending money to develop race cars either. They wouldn't want to anyway, back in the 60's and 70's Ford actually lost money on the GTHO's because of the high cost of R&D and the fact they had to keep the sale price down to fit within a certain price category to race them. But they considered it a worthwhile loss and it helped promote their product and sales through the win on sunday sell on monday theory.

Then you also need to consider the political ramifications. Once the media got hold of Ford and Expensive Daewoo building race cars for the road it would be a supercar scare all over again just like it was in 72.

I can't see Ford wanting to move from the current formula either at the moment as they are whipping Holdens arse.

Sorry mate I would have agreed with you ten years ago. But world wide there is a massive HP war going on. Ford and Expensive Daewoo need to step up to the plate and stop sitting on the bench.

Scotty

Edited 19/04/09 08:58 AM by Kimberley Scott

[Under-Pants]

  ZAP said:

I do not see what the capasity has to do with your point.

The BOSS is 5.4lt and quadcam, makes 315kw in comparison with the LS3 6.2lt pushrod that makes 317kw.

The BOSS is a very tight motor and only frees up over 15,000km, so most car comparisons are done in new or low milage cars.

The 5.4 is a tech motor and the LS3 is a 60yo boat anchor. The whole FPV package craps all over any of the HSV range.

Having looked closely at both FPV and HSV when choosing my GT-E, they are worlds apart.

Power is not everything when it comes to what car is best.

I would not swap my BOSS for a LS3 unless there was a blower on it.

Sorry Zap but IMHO, no amount of valves, cams & technology can overcome the fact that the BOSS is a tall & massively undersquare, high & heavy truck motor...

From memory the bore/stroke is ~90/105mm, so good luck with you're low & mid range power, getting it to rev hard, getting it to rev fast without piston speed issues due to that massive throw, fitting larger diameter valves due to small piston size...

No point in having the best flowing heads in the world on a motor that can't rev...

FPV spent about twice as much upgrading the BOSS for the FG than they did on the I6T, with very little to show for it in comparison, and despite a revision to the BOSS late in the BF-era.

An alloy blocked BOSS motor with 4-inch bores and a heaps lower deck height to lower the centre of gravity - would be nuts. Until such a thing goes into production (avail on the aftermarket though ) the LS_ will continue to turd all over the V8's we have

[Guest]

  Man-Pants said:

Sorry Zap but IMHO, no amount of valves, cams & technology can overcome the fact that the BOSS is a tall & massively undersquare, high & heavy truck motor...

From memory the bore/stroke is ~90/105mm, so good luck with you're low & mid range power, getting it to rev hard, getting it to rev fast without piston speed issues due to that massive throw, fitting larger diameter valves due to small piston size...

No point in having the best flowing heads in the world on a motor that can't rev...

FPV spent about twice as much upgrading the BOSS for the FG than they did on the I6T, with very little to show for it in comparison, and despite a revision to the BOSS late in the BF-era.

An alloy blocked BOSS motor with 4-inch bores and a heaps lower deck height to lower the centre of gravity - would be nuts. Until such a thing goes into production (avail on the aftermarket though ) the LS_ will continue to turd all over the V8's we have

Who says the Boss engine cant rev, I know of dozens that'll spin to 8k all day. Hell any built engine will spin there safley all day anyday, I know of a few race engines that see 10,000-11,000rpm and I know my new engine has been built to turn that high. Once the engine has been tuned the bottem and mid range power is improved tremendously, even if top end power isn't changed the improvments are significant.

And as for fitting larger valves your kidding right . Im running ford GT heads (latest 05/06 revision) on mine which are +2mm over the Boss/03-04 cobra castings, I also have +2mm oversized valves in the suckers to which are custom made as no one makes an off the shelf item as yet. Show me a head that'll flow high 3**'s at .500 lift on such a small capacity engine...

Yea an all alloy 9 liter engine would be nice but it just aint going to happen in this climate, I have an alloy block & 94mm bores buy hey I cant see FPV throwing good money at an engine like that.

And of course it's going to cost more to bump the output of an n/a engine vs that of a FI engine, any clown will know that. But the it didnt cost as much as your making it out to be, FPV were making those numbers a few years back and have been sitting on them since. A close friend who was asked to help develope a new intake for an upcoming model mentioned this to me 2-3 years ago.

[Venom XR6]

  Man-Pants said:

Sorry Zap but IMHO, no amount of valves, cams & technology can overcome the fact that the BOSS is a tall & massively undersquare, high & heavy truck motor...

From memory the bore/stroke is ~90/105mm, so good luck with you're low & mid range power, getting it to rev hard, getting it to rev fast without piston speed issues due to that massive throw, fitting larger diameter valves due to small piston size...

No point in having the best flowing heads in the world on a motor that can't rev...

FPV spent about twice as much upgrading the BOSS for the FG than they did on the I6T, with very little to show for it in comparison, and despite a revision to the BOSS late in the BF-era.

An alloy blocked BOSS motor with 4-inch bores and a heaps lower deck height to lower the centre of gravity - would be nuts. Until such a thing goes into production (avail on the aftermarket though ) the LS_ will continue to turd all over the V8's we have

The bore/stroke ratio has been fixed for next years Coyote all alloy V8, and has VVT and a 7000rpm redline. Will that be good enough?

[senna_T]

Well Venom, if you're info is correct - and it usually is - "that'll do pig, that'll do..."

[Erko]

Coyote V8? Happy dayz..............now can we get rid of the lame looking bonnet bulge (was tuff on the B series, its all wrong in the F series though)

[ZAP]

I think it looks better in the FG than the Ba/f. The way the front profile carries the arc of the buldge is just great.