The E85 Thread!

[NYT-SKY]

Hi all,

Seeing how there is not much info on the subject I thought I would create this thread.

Firstly I heard about this fuel from my tuner about a year ago now. He couldnt stop raving about how awesome this fuel will be for performance based engines.

I decided to some research of my own on this fuel, as blowing up an engine worth more than my car would not be on the cards.

Firstly the PROS:

*E85 burns colder, resulting in knock free tuning.

Example:

98PUMP= More timing, more timing, more timing, PING, reduce timing=POWER

E85= More timing, more timing, more timing, more timing, more timing, PEAK TORQUE, more timing, LOSE POWER, more timing, PING.

This means you will reach peak power and torque before detonation rears its head.

* E85 has little carbon (only from the 15% petrol) meaning after awhile the oil you drop at an oil change will look almost as clean as it was when it went it.

* E85 will clean all carbon deposits from your fuel system and engine.

* E85 is good for the environment, hardly any emissions. You will even pass EPA even with a 5inch cat lol

* E85 is cheap, im currently paying 99c/Litre

And most importantly

* E85 has an average of 108-110 octane. Meaning your engine will produce big numbers!

CONS:

* E85 is only available at very selected service stations (3 in the Sydney Metro area)

* Do to the nature of E85 you will burn through it 30% faster than 98 PUMP (even higher at WOT in some cases) So you will need bigger injectors and a fuel system that will handle your application.

* As E85 cleans your fuel system you will need to replace your fuel filter on a regular basis for the first 5,000kms (Im changing every 1,000kms and every 5,000kms after that)

There are alot of myths out there that E85 will either corrode lines, eat at your fuel tank and destroy your engine.

This is simply not true!

If your car was built before the late 80s then you might come into some of these problems, as the technology in rubbers, seals ect has progressed over the years they are easily able to cope with other fuels.

Here are some links of real world testing on E85:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85_in_standard_engines

http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/green-mo...anol-myths.html

(please read through and watch the video links)

MY EXPERIENCE:

A few months ago I got my engine tuned on E85 and I am extremely happy with the results.

RB25DET: (Built top to bottom)

Fuel system: 740cc Nismo injectors, Nismo 275L/hr fuel pump

98 PUMP result: 293rwkw@17psi

E85 result: 325rwkw@16psi

As you can see im making 30rwkw more on 1psi less boost than 98 PUMP. The only thing holding back more power is the size of my turbo. With an upgrade to a GT3540.82 I will make 400rwkw+ at 20psi

Now E85 will not suit everyone, if you use your car for everyday driving you will get tired of driving to one of only 3 service stations that provide E85 (Sydney Metro) Unless you live around the corner from one.

You will need to plan your trips!

I have a daily driver and do not drive my skyline everyday. I also have 200L of E85 stored at my place, so if im getting low I just take a few 20L drums with me to the servo to fill up.

So in conclusion, E85 is an awesome fuel to use if your situation allows. The PROS outway the CONS for me in my opinion.

I would love to see a few XRTs on this stuff. The way these engines make power so easy im very confident a stock turboed XR will make 400rwkw on 17-18psi rather than ringing its neck with 20+psi (with a fuel system to match)

SO WHO IS GETTING ON THE E85 BANDWAGON!

Edited 14/03/09 09:32 PM by NYT-SKY

[senna_T]

Nice write up dave

I'm keen to get adam to tune mine, but not until its a little more readily available - particularly with the long cruises that we do, I'm not keen on carrying spare fuel in my boot when the driving gets a little "enthusiastic" lol

Pretty sure there are a couple of guys on here that are playing with E85 already, in SA iirc...

[bda12pleaseu]

sounds like u did some good research WELL DONE...

im all for e85 however at its current stage the v8 supercar teams have had to spend quite a lot of money redesigning there engines to run this fuel. I know this doesnt relate to us that much but personally I wont be running it even if it was more widely avalible untill further r/d is carried out.

its great that some modders are using this but unfortunatly I see you guys that run it as the gunni cops so to speak.

also remember wiki is not always the best source of information

[Venom XR6]

Can't see the point really. There are next to no servos who sell it, it uses approx 30% more which makes the cost advantage non existant, and the environmental benefits are massively over exagerated as the amount of CO2 released growing the crops to make the E85 basically destroys the advantage you get by emmitting lower emmisions out the tailpipe. The only way E85 will provide an environmental benefit is if the ethanol comes from plant waste or rubbish, but I'm not sure if that's the case at the moment.

And its also an unknown as to wether it may cause long term damage to your fuel system. Some people have used it for a few months and then say its totally safe, but what about in a year, or 2, or in 5 years time. Then what. Manufacturers make modifications to make their cars E85 compatible, what does that tell you?

Expensive Daewoo have talked about making the Late model camira E85 compatible, which will require fuel system mods. Hint hint.

Then there is the issue of it absorbing water if its not regularily used.

More cons than pros in my book.

There's no doubt it will make more power but there are other ways to do that, without the inconvienience of having next to nowhere to fill up.

[Smoke them tyres]

Venom- spot on.

Also, rather than the tailpipe emissions, the total emissions from production to burning must be considered..... what about the additional refining and freight as more of it is consumed per km driven.

This fuel is/has always been promoted without revealing the future corrosion issue....from pumps and lines to injectors.

Could be quite an expensive future exercise that further wipes out any promoted savings.........?

[NYT-SKY]

Brazil have been running E85 for over a decade now. Even E95.

Most of their cars are powered by it.

SAAB and Volvo have flex fuel cars. They use existing technology in their fuel systems, the only tricked up bit is the ECU.

And as for corrosive please read through the links and watch the videos. Its thoroughly explained.

As I said in the first post E85 is not for everyone. But if you are like me and have another car to drive everyday. Its not that bad.

Edited 15/03/09 01:10 AM by NYT-SKY

[Craig.]

  NYT-SKY said:

And as for corrosive please read through the links and watch the videos. Its thoroughly explained.

I don't put a lot of weight in the links you have supplied I'm afraid. Just cause its on the internet, doesn't make it true mate.

Wiki= opinion based, no independently tested facts found here. Just anyone who could be bothered giving an opinion.

Another forum=opinion based from heresay from a friend of a friend who owns a fully sick car/boat/lawnmower that runs E85.

Can you supply any links from INDEPENDENT REPUTABLE sources. Perhaps an independent lab that has no interest in pushing one product over another, or wasn't commisioned by an interested party to find results that made their product look the goods?

I know there is a fair bit of propaganda about biofuels and ethanol up here because we are surrounded by Cane farms. The local sugar co-op see it as another income stream for them and hope it will drive sugar prices up, so of course they think its a great thing, even though sugarcane isn't the best crop for ethanol production.

Fact: Ethanol is corrosive! It swells rubber, eats fibreglass for breakfast and will make pretty short work of certain types of plastic.

Countries that run high % ethanol also have cars built/modified to use fuels that have a high ethanol %. That isn't the case here as vehicles sold here are made to run E10 at most.

You may no have issues right now with E85 sitting in your car for the last couple of months ( a car designed to run petroleum based fuel with a MAX ethanol concentration of 10%), but give it 2/5/10 years and see what time brings.

Then get back to us!

Edited 15/03/09 01:54 AM by craiginmackay

[RAP1D]

Once the fuel becomes more available it would be worth using, as Pat said, going on a long cruise will cause fill-up issues.

I spose with edit we are lucky as we can run 2 tunes, a 98tune and a e85 tune, so swap and change as you like... but it means paying for a new e85 tune, then a new 98 tune to suit the bigger injectors.

Great for stock turbos wanting to make 400 a bit safer though.

[senna_T]

Guys, NYTSKY has provided the info that he has - he is not selling Ethanol, nor is he producing it.

If you have a point of view that differs to what has been written, please support your claims with any proof you may be able to find.

Fact: I have eleventy billion horsepower.... Believe me?

[Craig.]

  senna_T said:

Fact: I have eleventy billion horsepower.... Believe me?

Of course we do.

You posted it on an internet forum so it must be true!