Why Tuners Hate 60lb Siemens Deka's

[Headsex]

I am going to lower the value of the Lowslope and see what happens from there.

Will post you on the outcome tomorrow.

Just out of interest.. Try these numbers, This is one of the extreme's I've set where idle was lean with 60's..

Break point 0.0000411

Hi Slope 0.0185

Low Slope 0.0183177

Min pulse width factory setting of 0.0003499

obviously update the Battery Volt Offset as per my screenshots above for the 60lbs.

Now keep in mind. the PCM does NOT idle at Stoich lambda 1 (14.64 AFR), Looking at the o2 offset table, its idles at .9% richer.. ie, 14.50 is what it targets..

Now if you run 10% ethanol fuel, that then changes to stoich from 14.64 to 14.08 (you should put that number into the fuel scaler for lambda stoich), and with the .9% bias, the Idle should be around 13.95afr

[01txr]

Will give your settings above ago tonight or tomorrow morning,

I have changed the low slope at present but was running late for work so didn't get a chance to

load it in as yet.

I will load in the tune for my tip home from work and see how the Low Slope adjustment responded.

If that fails I will try your settings as above.

Only new to all this tuning of computor injected cars so thanks for any assistance.

The manual doesn't seem to give information for a lot of settings.

Just curious also what does the Fuel Injector Minium Pilse Width do, Does it set the length or time

the valve opens in the injector?

I take it the breakpoint is where the injector changes from low to high slope.

What range should the low slope cover, eg idle,cruise to what rpm.

The high slope would come in when WOT and at a certain rpm if Iam thinking correctly.

Please explain if I am thinking off track.

Also I run my car on BP Ultimate.

All help is very appreciated Thank you.

[01txr]

Ok I have got it pretty close now, the lowering of Low Slope Values did not help on their own.

What I ended up doing is lowering the Low Slope value to 0.01999

and raised the Battery Volt Offset table x multipling it by 1.1

I have kept the Fuel Injector Minium Pulse Width to my maxium setting of .001

What I get now is 12.4 WOT with 13.2 at low revs WOT

After hard WOT instant backoff sits on 12.4 tapering to 13.4.

cruise is on slighly mid 13's with off throttle 14.6

Idle is 14.7 - 15.4 still being forced I think due to maybe slight lean.

I think I may have to lower the low slope a bit more because if I hold clutch in say from driving 2nd 0r 3rd gear by

time I come to a stop it is running high 16's.

It doesn't do this if I slow normally gearing down.

next tune I load will be running 0.018 low Slope to see if the roll to stop improves.

Then I will raise the value of the High Slope to try to get AFR to 12.1 WOT

On inspection in my engine bay I have found the Boost senor near the battery is clicking continiously

like a very noisy injector.

Could this be a result of a setting change or maybe a wrong wire when I extended the other boost senor

from the UBP to the pipe after the IC.

Also the wires for this senor are stainless, would using copper wires to extend it result in any problems.

(And yes wires have been soldered and heat shrink sealed)

Once again top end is fantastic with it hitting the 6200rpm limiter before I even realise or dropping in power.

Feels like it will push hard way past the 6200 cut I have set.

Dont worry wont be reving it past that and I will also be setting a 10 psi tune at 5500 rpm for street driving

with my 15 psi tune for track only till I finish my good engine.

[IH8TOADS]

Good work :-)

The boost sensor clicking.......what method are you using to control boost?

It won't be from extending the wires. The change is in the tune I'm pretty sure :-)

[Headsex]

On inspection in my engine bay I have found the Boost senor near the battery is clicking continiously

like a very noisy injector.

Could this be a result of a setting change or maybe a wrong wire when I extended the other boost senor

from the UBP to the pipe after the IC.

The boost sensor clicking.......what method are you using to control boost?

It won't be from extending the wires. The change is in the tune I'm pretty sure :-)

His on the ball.. The clicking is the solenoid running at like 0.3 duty cycle at 1000rpm. your obviously tuning in Open loop.

Change the very low rpm duty table to 1.

Attached is what my duty table looks like..

And my desired boost table..

As its operating in closed loop, My duty cycle varies depending on weather conditions, and 99% of the time between 4700 and redline, it sits at .99 duty As it had trouble targeting higher than 17.5psi anyways. On a extreme cold night, I'd be lucky to get 18psi as my actuator is simply just run out of spring. Technically my Desired boost table from 4500rpm onwards should be 36.

And because I'm feeling generious.. Here's my Wastegate Prop Gain multiplier table... 99% of tuners Zero this table out, eliminating closed loop and forcing open loop.

You know what? I was going to keep them a secret. But f*ck IT. This will puzzle ALOT of tuners..

Notice all the integrals and proportional gains are still set to factory?? As if I'm going to redesign the PI loop that ford spent many man hours doing.

Notice my P1227 Level is NOT disabled (this is your overboost protection).. Most tuners set this to 255 essentially disabling your overboost protection. and "Wastegate boost FMEM" is the amount of engine reduction WHEN you hit overboost.. Once again, its left as standard.

There is no f*cking secret to closed loop. The Secret is KNOWING how to setup the Desired boost and Duty cycle table to work correctly together!

Edited 27/03/09 08:02 AM by Headsex

[01txr]

I am setting the boost with the desired boost table.

Been thinking it maybe that as I have boost at 0 to 200f at 1000rpm set at 3psi.

Maybe the turbo is making more than 3psi at idle which also does not seem

right as it is at 20 - 25hg vac.

I was thinking this as being the case, but if so why isnt the wastegate actuator

also moving with the clicking coming from the sensor.

I take it that is its function that once at a set boost level it controls the wastegate

to open by allowing vacume to the actuator to do so.

I have had my Plazmaman Plenum and HDI Cooler for a long time now &

have never bothered to fit it being scared of boost spiking or being able

to control boost. Well I have been able to control boost via the desired Boost Table

& with Wastegate percentage via the Xcal 2 handset.

as far as I am aware it is running standard Flapper and may have a 12psi Actuator.

haven't fitted the new 15psi actuator as yet, will leave it for my good engine.

The reason Iam concerned about the stainless wire is because I can recall

years ago having some problem related to stainless wire.

Cant recall what it was though.

May have been something to do with interferance to a electronic ignition.

Headsex how confident are you on the Fuel Injector Minium Pulse Width 1.391(ms)

as the advantage 3 software wont allow me to .001391(Seconds)

my maxium setting of .001(seconds) is as far as it allows.

Is there somewhere the maxium can be changed.

[Headsex]

Headsex how confident are you on the Fuel Injector Minium Pulse Width 1.391(ms)

as the advantage 3 software wont allow me to .001391(Seconds)

my maxium setting of .001(seconds) is as far as it allows.

Is there somewhere the maxium can be changed.

0.001 is max limit In advantage also, but you can disable Min/Max checking values in the options to override this.

And yes, I'm 100% confident Minimum pulse width on the 60lb injectors is 1.391ms (0.001391), its just that your software is not allowing you to go past the min/max values.

In saying that, I would assume your Spark load table is not changed away from 1.4 as your maximum also.

Do you use a datalogger to check STFT and LTFT's ?

Ideally you want your low slope correct so that your STFT and LTFT are hovering around the 1.00 mark. STFT will have a wave to it, but LTFT should be close to 1.00

Dont even LOOK at your Afr meter, It will only tell you approx 15 seconds if your too rich or too lean, at approx the 35 second mark, the PCM starts closed loop fuel control, and that's when you see your AFR go closer to 14.6.

At this point, watch your LTFT on your datalogger.. If your LTFT shows 1.15, your 15% too lean, and its adding fuel, if its 0.75, its too rich, and removing fuel.

[01txr]

yes will start data logging soon, just wasnt to sure what I should be data logging.

What is STFT and LTFT's , only new at all this computor management stuff.

What I have done so far is run a preloaded tune that didn't work in the fuel delivery,

I had been told to start with getting the fuel right first then start working the spark tables.

Spark seems pretty good as it is not showing any signs of ping when at high 13 AFR's

witch suggest to me I can give it some more timing once I have the AFR's right.

What is the go with the Lambda being 1 at idle and cruise shouldn't it be at .82 at all times

where Fuel is ment to run?

I will try to find the options to disable min/max and try your settings again to see where it goes.

On my boost control, it seems the Desired Boost is not contrfolling boost as I previously suggested

it was due to Wastegate percentage.

Just tried to run 6psi last night and it still made 15psi.

Is there other options in controlling boost other than the wastegate.

The Wastegate sounds as if it is working overtime and feels slow.

is there a better way or do I just live with it.

I have had it making 9psi with 70% of wastegate.

[IH8TOADS]

short and long term fuel trims. Boost can be controlled using duty cycle only but there will be boost variation with environmentals and potential for boost to increase in 5th and 6th gear. I can email u the tables you need to zero out? Otherwise you can disable the overboost code and set the errors to their max and min. I think this will stop it going in and out of open and closed loop. Controlling boost mechanically will help controlling it eletronically so do the wastegate port mod as per headsex's thread :-). Ideally you want to run full closed loop which is what headsex has achieved. Pls correct if need be headsex. Cheers.

[Headsex]

yes will start data logging soon, just wasnt to sure what I should be data logging.

What is STFT and LTFT's , only new at all this computor management stuff.

Well, how do you know your getting yuor injector high and low slopes correct if yuor not datalogging what the PCM is doing.

STFT = Short term fuel trim

LTFT = Long term fuel trim.

Immediately by datalogging these values, you can see WHAT the pcm is doing when in closed fuel control.

Ie, You start your car, and after 30 seconds, when the PCM switches to closed loop, You will notice these numbers start the move.

Ideally you should see STFT bounce between 0.97 and 1.03 in like a Triangle Wave shape (I will put some datalog screenshots up tonight)

This indicates that your fueling is correct.

your LTFT will give you a idea on how far your low slope injector values are out. This is a slow moving trim, so yuo must sit at idle (no accelleration) for at least 1 - 3 minutes for it to stablise. Ideally this value should be close to 1.00 as possible. If you see 1.10 for example, your approx 10% too lean, because LTFT is adding more fuel (STFT opperates in reverse, but ignore STFT for now). If you see 0.90 on LTFT your injector low slope is approx 10% too rich, and the LTFT is pulling out fuel.

Forget for 1 moment about your AFR meter in yoru exhaust, Use LTFT/STFT to get your Injector Low slope correct. the AFR meter is only really good for checking yuor High slopes, as when your Wide open throttle, the pcm is not opperating in closed loop, so STFT and LTFT become inactive!

What I have done so far is run a preloaded tune that didn't work in the fuel delivery,

I had been told to start with getting the fuel right first then start working the spark tables.

Spark seems pretty good as it is not showing any signs of ping when at high 13 AFR's

witch suggest to me I can give it some more timing once I have the AFR's right.

Yes well I wouldnt be going wide open if the AFR's are not lower than 12.5afr with 15psi boost.....

What is the go with the Lambda being 1 at idle and cruise shouldn't it be at .82 at all times

where Fuel is ment to run?

Idle and Cruise and all light throttle are all lambda 1. Have a loop at the "Open-closed TP" table, which shows you what TP count makes the PCm go from Closed loop to Open loop.

All Closed loop is targeting 1.0 lambda!

I will try to find the options to disable min/max and try your settings again to see where it goes.

On my boost control, it seems the Desired Boost is not contrfolling boost as I previously suggested

it was due to Wastegate percentage.

Just tried to run 6psi last night and it still made 15psi.

Is there other options in controlling boost other than the wastegate.

The Wastegate sounds as if it is working overtime and feels slow.

is there a better way or do I just live with it.

I have had it making 9psi with 70% of wastegate.

My guess is your wastegate port is not done. Hense why boost will be uncontrollably above 15psi..

IF yuo cannot get boost down to the level of your actuator spring, then your overboosting. Some tuners will tune the car in its current state, but personally I can't get the level of boost control I want, so I won't do it. Fact is, at night when air temps drop even more, the Boost will rise higher!